Because building time is irrelevant if you do not have resources to build anything?
Soviets are not meant to slap a tier at the start of the game, if they were, their tech would cost half as much mp and required quarter as long build time.
Going any tier at start severely diminishes your early map control due to mp starvation.
You basically can NOT afford NOT to go 3 cons 2 CEs vs ost anymore.
That can be solved by decreasimg cost and building time of tier buildings, little cost decrease of maxim or penals, which can be tested. If you nerf the only thing osttruppen have in 1v1, you will just softly remove them from the game, so they become even less relevant than penals. Buffing minorly underperforming thing is better than nerf the only thing and purpose which unit has in certain game mode. The best solution for one strat tunnels is giving more opportunities for moving, not closing the tunnel completely. |
Osttruppen dynamic is interesting, but there’s no doubt it’s severely overperforming vs Soviets in 1s atm. The speed they hit the field with needs to be reduced asap.
Why nerf one thing, when you can just revert old building time nerfs from soviet t1 an t2 units, so instead of giving soviets back that annoying monopoly of early map capping you force both players into fielding support for their cheap infantry? |
Osttruppen are really bad in 2v2-4v4 where combat strength of units is more important than the speed at which they can cap the map and overwhelm the enemy. This is why they are meta in 1v1 but aren't seen in higher level teamgames at all.
Besides that I think that the dynamic of Osttruppen (1v1), that they are very good for the early and mid game and then drop off sharply towards the late game, is actually a very interesting strategic dilemma that makes picking Osstruppen a bit of a gamble, and thus a proper strategic choice. If the enemy can't be effectively broken early/mid game, then they will likely win the late game. I don't think this dynamic should be changed (as in major buffs for their late game performance), except for maybe very small changes to combat power scaling.
Well, I find that if 3v3/4v4 game changes to arty hellfest (every second game) then osttruppen can be used with backup of panzerwerfers and brummbärs/stugEs, while constantly digging cover and fight wounded allied mainlines. So, basically, dig in>fire salvos into the enemy>attack with osttruppen>kill main resisting enemy units with stugs or brum>flank with pgrens>dig in on conquered positions>repeat is working. Using sector artyllery if something goes wrong, like foes are double teaming or enemy arty forces retreats with lucky shots is working as well. Yes, regular ostruppen does not have a sector arty, but A) why you even pick it instead of community defence into larger game mode B) If you picked it, it can give you a great tool for picking early PIV and starting to try snowball foes with a lot of armor just like in 1v1, since doctrine provides that resource drop. The same combo with grens will be more costly and risky, since gren spacing is smaller, so ISU and Calliope are more likely to wipe grens. Both grens and ostruppen will lose to fully equipped allied infantry or vetted guards in most situations, so why you should pay more? This strat will not make anybody top10 in solo 3v3/4v4 as wehr, but top 150/100 is reachable with it, so I think it can be considered as working strat, since there is only 2, max 3 working top tier doctrines as any faction in massive game modes.
That's a lot of stuff, what else did you expect from a unit with 200 mp/45 muni cost? |
Check:
Concentrate Fire operations
240 Howitzer barrage
There are more than 3 shells for a little bit higher price.
You want to change railroad arty into this type or you want those 2 abilities perform like railroad arty? |
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Late-game prefomance of osttruppen is perfect in all game modes. 200mp+45muni for a squad, which looks a little bit similar to DP-28 cons, but without molotov, which can dig in for free into 2 different types of cover. There is no reason for "hit the dirt" and also there is no reason to remove LMG-42, ostruppen without it will not be able to vet up if called in lately on.
Their quick reinforcing is not a balance issue, it's their feature as cannon fodder/weapon crew. They cannot deal damage themself properly at timing of 251, and reinforcing bunker is more a meme than a real tactical choice.
Merge should not be able to regular osttruppen. I agree, that reserve osttruppen from mobile defence and relief infantry should be able to merge with weapon teams only, but I am afraid that those things cannot be coded.
Your suggestions will not solve a main issue with ostruppen, which is satisfying t1 skip and unsatisfying classic build play in 1v1 with all buildings being built. |
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How Gustav is not similar to other 12cp call-ins?
3 shells, 1 direct hit, two random hits. 200 muni-cost, warning works properly. If you want to "bring in line" 12CP abilities, then railroad artyllery is literally a golden standart. |
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M3 with assengie crew pls.
Price 180 mp 10 fuel and ability to drop a bazooka without rak teching. |
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If that's 1v1, here is my suggestion:
Agaist OKW start with two engies:while one squad is capping, another builds t1. Get m3 and one penal squad asap. If you confirm, that he can go for falls, just deny his puma arrival by capping cutoffs and as much standart points as you can get. It is important to have flamer, because t2 OKW will be forced into healing manually with crates since flamer have good aoe damage. This will deny muni upgrades to volks, sturmpios and volks.
Get t70 asap and then backtech to zis and maxim. Mortar can be a good idea too, if ylu need uncounterable recon.
Use t70 and m3 to bleed infantry, use zis barrages as much as you can, those are cheap and effective.
Guard motor is always a good doctrine pick, but also NKVD is great: you can get a commisar with propaganda to debuff/forceretreat blobs and anti-tank overwatch which is great against armor.
KV8 is good against puppchen spam also, but katy is more conservative valuable pick.
If you play against falls, it is important to get AA after your medium armor reaches the field.
AA HT is also quiet good to snipe models out and suppress infantry, but usually OKW players are using double rekttens if they have fuel problems or are stalling for heavy armor, so careful with that. It is possible, that your adversary can force you to suppress his blob, take your AA out with double rekttens and immediately put skillplanes online, which are poweful on small 1v1 maps.
Most effective strat against OKW is force them to assault you before they are truly ready and wait for a mistaken push. Good example is biting blob on your defensive positions with indirect fire or biting panthers to dive into your lines to get 3476 or t70 and then snare it and put AT overwatch on.
That's pretty much it, hope my suggestion helps. |
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Battlegroup HQ is viable.
Problem is AEC timing, when it comes slightly later than flakHT and flakHT also can be countered even easier than USF AAHT because it should be stationary for doing something.
If you play 2v2 as axis against soviet+brit combo, you want to be sure that AEC is countered and AT guns or guards will not easily take down your lights. Thats why you go Luchs, as a bullet-proof vehicle with good effective range, and puma, to counter foes light armor. Yes, you are healing your troops slowly, but thats is easily solved with medic bunker on your base provided by ostheer player.
If you replace Luchs with flakHT, nobody will build neither of those, but go strictly into puma while ostheer player will go for double 222 or flameHT, it will not solve the problem of "worse choice" with OKW t1. If you nerf puma, then RIP axis 2v2 for sure. |
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It's just a bug.
Both standart mortars, soviet and ostheer one, are sometimes lagging with their tasks: they don't complete barrages, smoke or regular ones, either fire flares.
You can try to "cure" this bug by cancelling all tasks for this mortar and order it to attack-ground. Usually after it fires, bug goes out, but not always.
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