Profile of Firesparks

as long as we are messing damage modifier against infantry, might as well give it a bonus against vehicle.

increase the stuart's damage against vehicle to 100.

brits tanks in a nutshell:

- FF kill almost a panther in 2sec....
> kill it with the next shot..
- centaur wipe rakten crew in 1sec with sniping shots...


and then the forum tell us that brits tanks are to weak. You never played the german version from TD and the ostwind, right? a panther wouldn´t killed by 2 stugs in this time...and a ostwind wouldn´t kill a rakten in this time.

case in point about tulip being the perfect boogeyman, providing an excuse to keep Firefly overpriced.


Shadow's success in the video is not the norm.

It all depend on the target armor as you can see here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

JP vs IS-2 time to kill
JP4 65.25 - 85.25
JP4 vet 3 50.74 - 66.27

FF vs KT
Firefly 82.75 - 107.50
FF vet 3 37.75 - 56.50
Firefly (Tulip) 66.25 - 91.00
FF vet 3 31.50 - 44.00

Also note how much better FF become with veterancy.




No it is not because:
It has sight of 45 360
Can stun any tank to close in with Tullip
Can have war speed available from vet 0
get 15% speed at vet 1
get turret rotation at vet 2

First, again you're using a chart with outdated data. the Post you're linking is from Sep 2016. The Firefly vet 3 was nerfed four months ago.

Secondly,
half truth is as bad as full false hood.

Here's the Full veterancy bonus of the jp4 and FF up to vet 3.

jp4 vet 1: cloak
ff vet 1 : +15% accel ( to 1.84) and +15% decel

jp4 vet2: +160 HP, +20% accu
ff vet2: -25% reload time, +25% turret speed ( to 24.3. panther is 33)

jp4: +20% top speed, +20 rotation speed, -10% reload time
FF vet3: +40 raw damage, +30% accuracy

The jp4 get better defense bonus with cloak and HP mixed in with a bit of offensive bonus. The Firefly get mostly offense bonus. They get different bonus to suit their play style, it's call asymmetric balance.

Third:

The same patch that nerfed the firefly vet 3 also nerfed the tulip as well. It's no longer a complete stun. it decrease its top speed to 25% for 2.5 second. This make a big difference because the tank's movement command is no longer interrupted.

this fact is explicitly spelt out in the patch note:

Tulip rockets no longer cancels move commands of the vehicle it hits

The firefly and tulip you have been quoting no longer exist

of course, to quote a certain someone:

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, some learn from them other do not, some even pretent they didn't.

Everyone makes a mistakes from time to time, only the wise thou admit it, so congratulations. Some choose to insist in their error making more mistake in the process.

Again 145F-140F and 380MP-400MP

yes, 380mp 140f, same pop as the jp4.

The point I was making with the link is that DPS for tank fights, needs to factor in armor and target size.

My point is and remains that FF is more accurate than JP, it also has allot more penetration.
(In addition it has 45 360 vie, can have access to trucking and war speed)

That is simply because you do not take into account Tulips.

A FF can snare and kill medium in around 8 sec if both Tulips land and that is one the highest DPS output of any TD.

the firefly might have better penetration, but its dps is so slow that it barely make the difference against the much higher dps jp4.


Alternatively, see how the jp4 fare against the highest armor unit for the british (290) verus how well the firefly fare against the panther.

as a simple calculation:
170/290 = .5862 * 28.16 = 16.507

210/320 = .6563 * 24.24 = 15.908

the DPS for the firefly is so low, that the lower penetration on the jp4 can keep up just by firing more shots.

assuming it's jp4 vs panther (which doesn't really happen)

170/320 = 0.5313 * 30.72 = 16.321536.

the long reload on the Firefly effectively keep its dps low. It's the great equalizer.

They also nerf the movement stun on the tulips, It's only 2.5 now.

It would be like having OLD stock TWP on Stug by default, but only working 33% of the time. When it works flawlessly, you kill a tank. When it doesn't, you miss and waste munition.

technically the tulips isn't on by default. You need to pay munition for it.

really, if nerfing the tulip damage to 80 per rocket and lower cost (~50 mu) mean the Firefly get a cost reduction to 350 mp 135 fuel 12 pop, it's a fair trade off.

Try this with a JP4

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/261489406

which is a poor example since the panther was stationary both time. The panther was sitting in front of a vicker trying to kill it, allow the firefly to take shot at it own leisure. Then it remain stationary as firefly drive up to it again

Even after taking both tulip rocket the panther still manage to back up, and would have likely retreated back to base if he didn't stop.

lastly, the panther was wounded already. 200+240+200 = 640, which isn't enough to kill the panther's 800 hp. The panther would have need to have been wounded already.

You did everything right, but it's not not a sign of how the firefly is worth 440 mp 155 fuel.

OH no not slower than a tiger! The turret exists and it does provide benifit ESPECIALLY to pathing. Being able to shoot things while navigating the shit ass pathfinding is a boon. I never said it was great but it exists. Don't play stupid. Just because it's not the OP Jackson doesn't mean it's not at a slight advantage over one's without a turret. The trait being there =\=, being the very best at it. You can use attack ground to get the turret mostly in place. Moving back and firing at a unit trying to flank you is a thing that can be done with a turret (no matter how slow it is) that can't be done without one.

Okay, the turret does provide advantage, but it is also important to acknowledge that even with a turret, the Firefly is still vulnerable to flanking.

Any axis player who used the tiger should know that having a turret doesn't make you immune to flanking. There's faster turret, and then there's slow turret. The firefly have a slow turret.

The firefly is as vulnerable to flanking as the tiger, given their turret speed and chassis speed are almost identical similar. It's not like the jackson whose fast turret and body make it "impossible" to flank.

And for the record, you're comparing something the British get by default and basically for free to something that the Axis get doctrinally and by having to pay fuel and manpower for it.

the 25 pounder isn't "free". you at the least need to spend munition on the barrage.

Neither the 25 pounder nor the major measure up to the axis rocket artillery, much less the on map howitzer.

And it's not like the panzerwerfer or the stuka are "weaker" than the howitzer.

The howitzer's main advantage is safety. On most map you can plant a howitzer next to your base and still cover most of the map. Rocket artillery require the unit to get closer.

Neither the British nor the US IRL really used rocket artillery, during WW2 or afterward. Both countries had already mastered the art of fire mission and there was no real need for rocket artillery.

By contrast both the german and soviet gravitated toward rocket artillery because it was easy to use and have a low skill floor. The soviet lack radio equipment and rely mostly on pre-planned barrage. The german were hardy better and moved toward Western howitzer doctrine post war.

This is why both the british and USF in game have Howitzer as their strongest tech artillery, because it was what they were good at. Instead of rocket artillery or on map howitzer, both the USF and UKF get pseudo off map howitzer.