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Yes i argue that it needs buff to its gun. HE rounds to trouble allies heavies. Pen increase on vet2. This is to scale late game. It wont matter to allies Td anyway. |
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Its been long time since coh1, but panther did its job for its price and role than, its armor works, it did not face snares, TD and heavies like now. This is reason why im voicing out.
I don't think panther is that much faster from all games i played, i checked coh2stats and yes im right. speed, acceleration and rotation, no panther is not clearly better. Besides i dont think speed of med tanks is important if moving accuracy is bad and with snares now...
That's why i say panther role now is confused, brawler is not, mobile td is not. Yet it is wehr TD to stand up against heavies, else what is wehr equivalent of a td?
Oh i say panther reload was not 'greatly' buffed, but needed buff after allies td that got greatly buffed |
Here we go again,this remind me of "Firely v3 can solo panther v3", by mrgame2.
If panther cant scale then i wonder which unit can.
I will say it really doesn't.
Combat blitz is very much a passive retreat now, already nerf and further nerfed with infantry snares
Armour skirts doesn't scale against same TD vet, will still get pen left right front back, vet vs vet.
The 99 armour still get pen from non-TD. I mean its not a cheap tank, takes up more popcap than Churchill, you expect it to scale better over med tanks and ATG.
The vet3 reload boost helps but by then, heavy armor allies means it still have troubles pen from max range, still have 50% moving accuracy if you attempt to flank and avoid snares.
It's just expensive for what is poor late game performance in 2v2 |
You WOT m8?
Can we bury the "panther has slow reload" mem already?
It's got literally better ROF than most medium tanks (including Pz4), save for sherman76/M4C. It hs higher rof than firefly, and pretty much matches SU-85. OKW variant can even push the ROF even further with an ability.
Yes it is slow compared to those with TD role, when you consider wind down, tracking and moving accuracy.
Sure it is sightly faster than t34s but that is not saying much. You either come up against 2-3 of them, meaning they have 3 chances against your 1 and with just 90-99 armor now....
Or you don't, Soviet may save for su85,is2 or kv tanks.
As i said, panther is bit of mess as a mobile TD.. doesn't scale well late games against vetted allies TD and heavies, and vulnerable with poorer armor, high hp just means more repair times if it get pen 100% from 90 armor. |
Proving a negative, etc.
I actually _do_ think Churchill is a bit too stronk at the moment, but good logic and all that.
I believe more along that wehr do not have effective counter to it. Elefant helps but still..
I been saying give panther nondoc heat rounds and perhaps pen boost at vet2. It will work better against all allies heavies instead of just weakening Churchill. |
PV outranges the tanks with low pen enough for it's armor to matter. PV HP pool is more important than having high armor against TDs. The changes made to the PV in conjunction to buffing it's RoF, made it better against TDs, better at vet 0 and removing the few cases on which the unit would bounce everything or getting destroyed by a few lucky pens.
The problem, PV is costly and it comes up against TD and heavies. Which its armor is not useful. Its rof is still slowest besides the firefly. It has worst moving accuracy for a role it needs to be mobile.
Its hp is not useful alone, since 90 armour cannot defend itself against side shots. It needs something more to stay in close range battle. 1 panther can only deal 160 with reload times. Td already got hp buff and infantry snares. When we encounter heavies like churchill and kv1, it is even worse.. |
The table you are quoting is literally saying a vet 3 (2) Panther has more frontal armor (286) than the KV-1 (270). The Panther having less rear armor than the KV-1 is logical because of their roles and it is realistic on top of that.
Considering that Panther is Wehr main tank to counter Allies heavy, yet its armor is weak to support this role as a mobile tank counter. It got no vet bonus to supplement this role, no penetration increase, no move accuracy increase, no damage increase. Just weak 90-99 armor on its 2nd half that even cheap SU76 can deal 120 damage from 60 range. SU76 need not flank it, just have a nice angle side opening, i repeat rear armor is not rear armor, but 50% of the tank.
Allies TD all out range it, allies infantry all have super fast snares, Soviet even have heavy engine damage. And best of all, Allies TD on vet get pen bonus that completely ignores panther vet armor. Poor scaling for Wehr, dont you agree?
And when you list out all TD available to each factions, their ranges, their penetration, their damage, their accuracy, their vet bonus. Dont make sense why Allies need so strong rear armor tanks that are still popcap affordable. |
tiger 300 churchil 240
seems pretty close for much less fuel non doc heavy tank while having the rear armor = to p4 frontal armor
Dont forget "front" armor is 50% of a vehicle, and "rear" armor is the other 50%. Wehr nerf rear armor is a bigger magnitude than it sounds.
Besides only Panther can reliably pen churchill from close, or you stall for elefant, and even that tank needs 5 constant hit to kill a churchill. Or a Pak43...
P4, Pak40, Stug, Shrek all struggle to drain Churchill. In 1v1, it is still manageable since resources are a premium, but once 2v2, a brit player can concentrate on 2 Churchills while his team mate provide some AT. In the last Anniversary classics, iirc helpinghans team were stopped dead in their tracks against double Brit and Churchills.
I stil say 1400 HP and that high rear armor and abilities are too much considering the AT buff Allies got. |
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Dont forgot Allies have good arty. Hell Brit base arty is another low scatter accurate ones. I think same with Major Arty. And next patch, Calliope is even to arty Wehr out.
Yes Wehr design a bit broken now. Even their weapon teams are no longer the best to cover. Usf mortar is more accurate and reload faster for example.
Late game Wehr armor do not scale well to defeat those TD and high HP tanks like Churchill. I being asking for at least a HE round at vet1 to Panther and P4.
And add smoke to flame HT. It is crazy how USF clown car has faster speed and still have smoke and self repair, very durable. Little things that Wehr have trouble dealing with. |
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Not a fan of indirect fire now, it is too deadly, especially for Allies which can turtle in with the buffed TD. Too much counter Wehr faction design. Hell, the ATG can target bunker like nothing. So the Wehr defensive design is stressed broken imo.
Pak howie and Scott are over-over performing. There is no direct counter for Wehr. I mean at least OKW can try a Stuka against Pak.
These 2 indirect have crazy low scatter accuracy, does what 50% damage on 1 hit, and can shoot out of counter range, and their pop cap are low enough, you can safely go for 1 or 2 and still amass a good army. Just defend it with 1 ATG and 50cal, simply because Grens are terrible closing in, and Scott HP / Smoke can scoot out against P4. |
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