Elephant/Jagdtiger
These are doctrine, they are late, takes up much popcap and really really slow to turn now, even then you need 5 shots to kill 1 churchill. Imagine Wehr player saving for panther against it...
The point is Churchill is overperforming now that it is very strongly supported by Allies buffed AT, i am coming from 2v2 player.
Churchill besides the smoke, still have auto repair! But Why? |
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I disagree. It was fine.
Before major buff to TD and snares. There is no way panther can slug it out now.
Right now the front and rear armor are too high when its hp is already so high and with its fast turning and its gun is better than p4. Its simply too much for late game, especially those playing wehr. |
The LMG Grenadier upgrade is in line with the WM playstyle of defenseive play. They’re not about wiping out units on retreat or flanking down squads. WM is about using your weapon teams to defend in depth and force a retreat so you can creep up and take territory. LMG Grenadiers contribute to this by inflicting long range damage to closing enemy infantry trying to de-crew or force off your team weapons. UKF is similar, but not identical, in this regard.
OKW on the other hand is about assault and wiping out enemy units in a more complex and maneuver centric battle.
It’s just a different style of faction. Also probably why most players prefer the OKW style of play, as it is more maneuver oriented and more similar to Soviet and USF styles of play.
I disagree kind of, because when WM tech to tanks, they cannot play defensive. Their tanks need to move and clear the way. So there is this disconnect with WM now, too much changes and counter fixes that WM is a bit lost faction, and the worst performing come late game. |
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Hope the coming stug buff will scare off Churchill, kv and is tanks for ost.
Though going stug will heavily delay t4 anti infantry brumbar or pwafer. Like i feel, ost is in a delicate unforgiving situation. Ost doesn't have the arsenal to breach allies who dig in late games |
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I definitely favour changing arty and mortar. Its a lazy meta now in team games. Perhaps have weapon team survive with one man. Or arty does more health damage instead of instant squad wipes. You need to action and move in to finish them off instead of lazy scatter wins. |
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As ost 2v2 player, these tanks are headache to kill. Churchill gun has much better chance to pen p4 than opposite, i say it contest favourable well against p4. Hell Churchill gun can reasonably damage vet2 panthers armor..also Churchill rotates and reposition super fast, faster than panther if im not wrong.
I think its 16 popcap is too generous considering 5 man IS is just 1 popcap from 4 man grens.. |
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A thing with jtg and elefant, they are really expensive now on popcap starved ost, and they don't do nothing against infantry. You win games via infantry, of which allies are better.
Besides imo allies td are more than equipped to deal with them now. Not just barely, but comfortably. You cannot say the same for ost to deal with allies heavies, they just barely enough to hold back, speaking from a 2v2 player |
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Imo biggest problem for ost is their units dont scale as well, especially their td which takes heavy popcap along with pioneers. At vet0 they are all good without feeling unbalanced.
Hence i suggest to give p4 panther stun shot at vet1 to keep the theme of mobile assualt. Perhaps move accuracy from 0.5 to 0.6 at vet2. And reduce infantry chance of squad wipe when late game arty are the norm. Hell relic just made calliope better.
Su85 maybe turret less but it doesn't really need to flank panthers does it? Besides allies snares are much better than faust simply because of speed of throw. |
I use coh2 db for my stats. It seems up to date mostly. The panther armour rating is higher then you say on that site. 260 according to coh2db. To my knolidge panthers still can bounce of the su85 frontaly. If the panther has 175 armour it should always penetrate.
The panther also has simaler pen as the allied tds, it has a turret is fast and mobile, has heavy crush and at least has ai. Only the range is a real downside.
You also did not list the king tiger. It has more armour then the is2. And its non doc and imo has a better gun.the su85 jackson and ff are meant to be able to halt it or force it off.
And the supirior allied infantry is much more expensive to get to max level or are locked in commander and still cost more.
Again this is according to coh2db. If the stats i stated are wrong please feel free to correct me.
Coh2 armor hit box is 50% of vehicle is front, and 50% is rear. So your low rear panther armor is really 50% of the tank, as such you encounter many cases where su85 can shoot 30 degree off front and score a rear armor hit. Besides allies td ignore armor values on veterancy.
Another way to fix is to move the hit box from 50/50 to 70/30 perhaps.
And KT is not ost tank.
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Another suggestion to move stun round from pak to panther at vet1, to complement its mobile AT role. Allies td will be less comfortable when being flanked. Now they have enough hp to take on a flanking panther.
For pak, remove stun and replace with 200hp damage.
For stug, perhaps lower its popcap from 10 to 9 and fuel from 90 to 80. Have an option for stug train, like allies can do t34/76, wolerines, cromwell. Besides stug is purely AT, so it seems ok |
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