Your attempt to make 2v1 combined arms sound op is a fail.
The 34 is sacrificed in that trade.
Well of course. That's implied in the act of using the ram in the first place that your tank isn't getting out. Infact in most situations you're going to be taking your nearly dead tank and using the ram as it's final sendoff to take down your opponent's tank that's in the process of fighting you.
Point is you're trading positively in both Manpower and Fuel to trade your weaker and cheaper T-34 for a more expensive and stronger P4 to effectively reset the initial armor skirmish to give you timing advantage again, or to use the last gasp of your effectively dead tank to take down your opponents armor with you. Or to tackle something heavier you wouldn't be able to effectively deal with otherwise (Panther, Tiger, King Tiger, etc) which is an even larger resource advantage (but admittedly harder to successfully manage.)
Not only that, but this isn't some ridiculous fabricated scenario where the cosmos need to fall into line for the situation to happen. All that needs to occur is the P4 stepping into ramming range of the T-34 and something to either damage it once, or be in position to damage it once post-ram which is a perfectly reasonable expectation. So just the fact that this can happen means that the T-34 has a circle of death that defensively zones tanks and prevents armor pushes meaning the T-34 can happily roam around shooting infantry at it's leisure and if it's ever in a bind vs another tank or something big and threatening overextends you can press the "reset" button and come out positive. |
Il 2 strafe and ram have both been hammered to the point of inefficency that it does most certainly not hold water well anymore.
Just because something got nerfed doesn't mean it's still not powerful (Zis Barrage). Go into cheat commands mod, spawn a T-34, a P4, and even just 1 Zis Gun in range of the ram. Spawn the Bam, hit the Ram, and the P4 turns into Jam.
That's with just 1 Zis when you really should have 2. Ram does 25% damage + if the T34 hits a shot that pens that's another 25%. Zis Gun does 25% (50% if you've got 2). IL2 Rocket Run does 50%. In most situations you have 3-5 chances to land a single penetrating shot on a medium between the Ram and Rocket Run doing 75% of it's life guaranteed. Literally if your T-34 pens it's first shot you can ram and bam with no support at all and come out positive. The 75% damage burst from Ram and Bam means that if the Wher/OKW player takes a single hit they can't afford to stay in lest they die to a wombo combo they can't stop which is quite powerful.
Even against heavier tanks, having 2 T-34's in combination with the ability to Ram and Bam is a trade up almost all of the time since with some luck your Rocket Run can hit twice on a Panther, and 3 Times on a King Tiger while the immobilization effect prevents the Panther/KT from moving out of range of the At Gun before it gets another shot off, and it's rear armor away from your other T-34 if you decide to swing around the side for Rear Armor shots.
All this for nearly half the price of Anti-Tank Overwatch (125 vs 200) and not even mentioning the fact that Ram can still engine crit which even without the rocket run is usually going to be a dead tank.
This all being said, I don't have a problem with IL2 Rocket Run by itself. Powerful abilities should exist and there is obvious counterplay (Don't get rammed lmao). The entire problem with this doctrine is SVT Cons who are still entirely too fast for the value they provide at 2cp and I hope the balance team has done more to them in their secret hidden update. |
I mean doesn't 5 man grens help with the staying power a good amount? Like you don't get the DPS boost from the MG42 but with 5 men it's harder to lose grens and they have more health to stay in the fight.
Tbh I don't really get all these calls to buff VSL again. Like we just got out of them being the dominating meta with the last patch and they are still a pretty common 1v1 commander. Do we really need to buff them and risk making them the meta again?
By the time your Grens are Vet 3 you're not losing them unless you catastrophically screw something up and if you do lose them the 5th man wasn't going to save you because you probably died to Rocket Arty.
My problem with the upgrade is that it doesn't do anything functionally much different from the MG-42 or G43 upgrades. It's just an effective damage upgrade at all ranges which is either invalidated because it's too weak, or op because it's too strong. It's no different from SVT Cons in theory and look how broken they are. (For slightly different circumstances though)
The ability needs to actually do something for the unit to make it stand out. I could totally justify a weaker MG42/G43 Gren if it had some sort of ability or some sort of playstyle change to it's use over other Gren variants. Free Medkits is almost completely irrelevant on any grand scale of things.
For example, give the Veteran Squad Leader "On Me!" from the USF Captain. Now you have a Gren squad that can answer MG's as a trade off for being weaker than a MG42 Gren. Suddenly you have purpose to the unit and a desire to build 1 if needed.
Also German Infantry outside of VSL Grens is incredibly strong and should probably be toned down a small bit. No one cares because Jaeger Infantry exists, but German Infantry is nearly just as stupidly good even if VSL Grens are useless atm. The option of an ultra light, Stormtroopers, A skillbuff and Frag Bomb are all fantastic, hell even 5 Man Pios are amazing for repair purposes. I'd honestly trade Festung Support's Relief Infantry for Assault and Hold just to lower the doctrine strength a little. (And buff Festung Support) and even then I think the doctrine would still be too good. |
SVT Cons are fine. Keep in mind that the commander doesn't have a heavy tank or anything amazing late game. They do a good job at countering blobs as conscripts become useful instead of shooting wet noodles at the enemy.
Zis Guns + T-34 Ram into IL-2 Rocket run gg, plus you have DsHK's in this doctrine which cover the massive hole that is the existence of the Maxim.
Also you vastly underestimate 7 Man Cons. They're absolutely fantastic and are near untouchable in Green Cover with their firerate buff. So it's telling when you can get an even better stronger well-rounded version of them 6-7 minutes earlier. |
Just drop the medkit ability from Sturms entirely, and make a healing-only BGHQ buildable. It's a bandaid solution rather similar to Brits getting a Medic squad rather than just being able to build a Forward Assembly sooner, or getting Base Medics like SOV.
I agree that the BGHQ and Mech are rather more balanced against one another now, though. There's really just a couple of niggles here, and some other changes I'd make to OKW and I think they'd be a pretty good/balanced faction. Next step is to try and untangle Brits.
Honestly I don't hate how the OKW tech structure has evolved. You're basically choosing between Strong LV's and expensive healing, or strong healing and weaker LV's. You're not necessarily trading away the ability to do things by picking one or the other, you're trading away the ability to be stronger at one thing compared to the other. That's how non-linear teching should work.
This is one of the main differences with USF teching that makes it awful. You're not trading strength for weakness, you're trading strength for essentially nothing still. AT Guns and MG's are just too important at the role they fulfill to not have them and your compensation isn't enough to not get both of them anyway, Unlike healing and LV's these aren't some minor gameplay interaction you can play around, you aren't given the answer to fight the option you chose against. (Nevermind the litany of other things USF is missing on top of that.)
It's crazy, but I'd like to see a Maxim clone as the 30Cal become a significantly weaker Machine Gun for USF in Captain, while the current AT gun is moved to LT (Maybe nerfed in this case) and the Pack Howie turned into a powerful AT gun while keeping it's indirect capability. That way you've got your tech choice between infantry focus or vehicle focus with a weaker supplemental option without having to completely sacrifice one or the other. You could even get rid of the awful clunky dual teching system too if this is done. |
So I don't think anyone has brought this up yet, but on the topic of SVT Cons, they still aren't okay with the known existing changes to the doctrine. Increasing their cooldown time and CP cost by 1 does nothing to change the reason they are broken.
SVT Cons out-perform 7-Man Cons in every conceivable way in combat. Doesn't matter in the open, in Green Cover, Yellow Cover, short fights, prolonged fights, no vet, full vet. Doesn't matter. Not only this but SVT Cons come significantly earlier, and are only 10 Muni more to upgrade. The minor benefits that 7 Man Cons provide in relation to SVT Cons isn't even close to being worthwhile.
The fact is that SVT Cons just step on the toes of both 7 Man Con upgrade (Both of them significantly increase the combat effectiveness of Cons yet SVt's are better and faster) and Penals (Cons are just cheaper slightly weaker Penals with better utility)
The SVT's need to fulfill some sort of role to be of use besides just being a giant damage buff to the Con squad at all ranges. Maybe they could act like Panzerfussiliers G43's and have excellent moving accuracy to enable a more mobile con squad, maybe they could give Cons a grenade, maybe they could synergize with Airbourne Guards (Give Airbourne Guards an ability like "Heroic Charge" that can target SVT Cons or PPSH Penals to give them some buff) (Or alternatively whenever you call in the Airbourne Guard strafe, maybe all SVT Cons you own gain a combat buff for "x" seconds)
Literally anything that isn't just "They do more damage now." |
While I disagree that BG and Mech aren't side grades to each other (I think they're actually quite balanced relative to each other at the moment in spite of OKW's flaws) the real pants kicker is that even if you go Battlegroup, you're probably going to need to use the 45 Muni Medkit ability before you can even get medics if you want to maintain field presence and I think that could be improved on.
I'd like to see the Medic upgrade on Battlegroup decreased in time by a significant amount and as necessary have the secondary Battlegroup tech timing increased to make up for it if total tech timing becomes an issue. OKW has the latest natural healing source of all the factions and it's incredibly rough to be out 45 Muni most games because you needed to heal once before your medics come up in order to maintain field presence.
I'd also be willing to argue for cheaper Sturmpio Medikits since if you do go Mechanized you go from the least Muni starved faction to the most having to spend about 180-270 Muni on healing alone before it's reasonable from a timing perspective to backtech medics, which is kind of ridiculous. Drop that to 30-35 per kit and you're still spending more than any other faction for healing as you should given your tech choice, but it doesn't eat your whole muni bank attempting to sustain your infantry throughout the match. |
Tripple elite bazooka Rangers are far, far superior to any other bazooka squad, they are very far from irrelevant in that role.
I'm not saying they're irrelevant at the role itself, but the fact is I already have 5 Bazookas on 2 squads who can't fight infantry (Rear Echelon (0MP) The Major (Tech Bonus) and have effectively no other purpose in combat, and one squad who needed the Bazooka as an LV deterrent where most of his damage comes from his Thompson anyway. I don't need to be spending 350 Manpower on even more Bazookas on top of that, even if they're superzooks.
It's a matter of the role being filled more efficiently and cheaper by squads you just passively already own rather than having to dedicate tons of resources into a role that you already have fulfilled. The manpower is just better spent elsewhere. |
Their unique features/abilities are integrated into their core stats; very low TS/RA, 3 weapon slots, really high close range DPS with a mid range profile too and cooked grenades. Anyways Rangers vet 2 and 3 will be swapped around, primarily so they will receive their RA bonus earlier. Similar to most if not all other assault infantry. Then they won't bleed as much trying to get to vet 3, and then they should become a real menace. We didn't want any other changes because of how good triple elite Zook Rangers are. This change will also incidentally nerf those a bit I guess.
So, part of the problem with Rangers from my perspective is that they don't do anything I wouldn't rather want to do with other squads. If I want an SMG Squad I'm going to call in Paratroopers and put Thompsons on them because they give me the ability to walk onto your retreat path and "Tactical Wipe" your squad. Zook's on the other hand, I already have Jim and Frank, local line cooks for the barracks on Panzer duty, same with Major Tom and his 2 lackeys'. Hell even Lieutenant Dan is joining the fun. I don't need 3 more Bazooka's, even if they are superzooks, unless something has gone catastrophically wrong.
USF has too many trash squads that can only gain value by making them tank hunters which invalidates the need for Superzooks, and are just inferior to Paratroopers otherwise (Who also still get 2 Super zooks anyway). The problem isn't that they're a bad squad that needs buffs, the problem is that they're an irrelevant squad that does what other squads do but worse and they don't have a niche to fill. |
Generally you need to be watching the Gren squad and observing that one guy is kneeling and trying to fire the grenade, not trying to react to the grenade itself. The tell is Hans trying to tie his boot, not the smudge whistling towards your squad.
Obviously, but you can't spend the whole game examining Dietrich's boots to see if they're untied yet. It's the moments he catches his lace on a bush while you're not looking that are deadly. |