What..?
Panther is one of the most mobile units in the game, all lights are comparable.
All non casemate medium vehicles have blitz or combat blitz, heavy tanks included and casemates are comparably mobile.
That's incorrect, actually, allied vehicles, namely shermans are larger and easier to hit(larger target size). Medium tanks have same target size and so do heavies.
Did you even read what I wrote? It's as if you only read the first sentence and went from there. |
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Axis vehicles are for the most part far less mobile than allied. While they might bounce a tiny bit more, they're also around longer and so get hit more.
The only exception *might* be the panther, but honestly it's just on par with an allied vehicle.
Use AT guns and tank destroyers screened by infantry if you're going to frontal assault, but preferably bait tanks in-front of AT guns like the real world doctrine. |
Would have been nice and made sense for there to be crew exit and enter animations like in the USF trailer...
I'm assuming that there's not animations for all the vehicles?
Surely animation would be the ideal situation. |
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It's really annoying and immersion breaking when without fail USF players decrew their vehicles to glitch out targeting. It is essentially a free smoke screen.
While decrewing is a part of the army I really don't think that it should be a common exploit.
Is it possible to either 1) add a timer that stops the vehicle for 2-3 seconds until the crew exits, or 2) add a timer to the vehicle itself that still makes it a valid target by the AI for 4-5 seconds while still instantly dropping the crew? |
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How dare you. You're literally Hitler! |
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Just wandering into the thread so I want to put in my two cents.
My perspective is from 1v1, so there might be team game issues I don't see.
Grens don't really need a buff so much as they need their role more clearly defined.
The major issue with grens is that even when you do everything right they still take *forever* to force other infantry to retreat.
You can make the argument that OST is a combined arms faction, but in reality it's the worst, only getting slightly better if you have ostruppen, ass grens, or a bunch of veteran squad leader upgrades.
Why? You can't protect your crew weapons, and small squad size means that they're nearly impossible to recrew. Even if you have grens with your MG, if it gets flanked they simply won't be able to force off the squad in time. This is why OST will have only 1 MG, and maybe some PaKs. All the other factions can field many more crew weapons since A) they can defend them and B) they have the close range DPS to contest weapons and the squad size to recrew them.
In order to fix grens as a decent mainline two things need to happen IMO.
1) Flatten their DPS curve i.e. move some close range damage to long range. Grens are supposed to be long range units, but they don't really excel at long range fights, they're only marginally better. If someone is capping your cutoff the only option you really have is having the MG nearby or sacrificing a bunch of pio models as grens can't really do much other than poke at the capping squad hoping they'll run away. With a flatter DPS curve grens become a threat that has to be dealt with immediately, instead of a nuisance that you deal with eventually. Now you'd have to move in to deal with the grens before capping if you don't want to suffer a major manpower loss, and the MG may or may not be there to protect them. This would make the MG a more defensive unit that reinforces the grens instead of an offensive necessity.
2) Sacrifice some of grens RA for more damage. Grens don't have the overall DPS to really punish aggressive play. They hardly ever wipe squads with weapon damage alone. The hot nor cold approach to their damage and RA simply doesn't work. They should excel in one or the other, and glass cannons make far more sense than impotent Neo's dodging bullets. Increasing the damage makes positioning far more important, meanwhile making grens an actual threat to an opponent's manpower pool.
As an aside: G43s are the best upgrade you can get for grens. 1) they come fast for a munitions starved faction. 2) Grens need close range damage to punish charging squads far more than they need a little bit more long range DPS. By the time you get all the MG42s for your grens vehicles will be doing most of the manpower damage (so a teller mine is probably be a better muni investment), and there will be elite squads running about like shocks, thompson rangers, and commandos that really don't care about a tiny bit more damage on their way to devastating your squad at close range where the MG42 isn't doing anything.
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Can I just reiterate that I don't want grens to actually be changed significantly in relation to their benchmark status? At least not until the later battlephases where they are by and large routed from the field in the current state.
What I want to do is increase the speed at which grens can do damage in their preferred position so that they're an actual threat that has to be dealt with instead of ignored until you finish up your business. Since the RA is removed they'll still trade as they do now, just faster.
The largest problems from wher come from three things: not being able to control the map, not being able to protect crew wepaons, and not being able to screen for tanks.
-Can't force off or punish capping units. At best they can pick off 2 models in the time it takes to flip a standard point, and will probably lose a model for their trouble. Allied players are able to finish capping points before dealing with the grens, but if allied units challenge capping grens you pretty much have to get off the point and find cover.
-Can't wipe cheeky de-caps. A lone, full health, gren squad de-capping the fuel is dead if the allied player is able to get three squads on your retreat path. You need something like 5 grens, or maybe 4 g-43 grens for the same effect. Pretty much your entire infantry force and even then it can be a dice roll.
-Can't reinforce effectively. Did you sit at range behind green cover to win your last fight? Good for you. Time to go back and re-inforce right? Nope. Since it took you a whole minute to win the fight there's now a fresh squad cappinig your fuel and you've only got a half health squad to challenge them.
-Can't protect crew weapons. The other day I had a game that started off with my MG42 suppressing two rifle squads with a gren squad protecting it. You'd figure it would be a strong start, but you'd be wrong. A flanking rifle squad was able to march past my grens while picking off a model, and decrew the kiting MG with m1's. Grens were forced to retreat, and one of the suppressed rifles took the MG.
Want to use AT guns in the late game? Good luck. Even with an MG allied players will be able to rush your paK wall and drop a grenade. Now that your at-guns are moving their armor can come in and pick off your mg and grens.
-Can't screen for tanks. Is there a jackson plinking at your panther from the back line? Well you can just move up your panther to it's 50 range and shoot back right? Oh wait you can't see it. I guess you can just rush it right? Oh wait there's a rifle squad in green cover waiting to snare your now damaged panther. Time to bring up the infantry right? Welp there's an HE sherman. You can attack the sherman with your panther, but by the time you've chased it away it'll have forced off your infantry, and the jackson will have brought your panther down to 20%. You maybe can dive for the sherman, but that's a bad trade. The second you retreat they've got their crews out repairing and back to full health before your pios have retreated back to base. |
Not it is not easier especially if that army is benchmark and is in the correct power level.
And it is not as if the other armies are in the same power level, infatry is being continuously buffed left and right. Pathfinder/I&R Pathfinder, JLI, Shock troops, Storm troopers, Assault engineer...all received buffs in the previous commander patch and now Ranger, conscripts are also receiving buff.
Now instead buffing the unit in high power level and reducing reaction time it is to restart using ostheer as benchmark and start nerfing.
In theory I'm down. I would actually like to see the slower fights that would come from nerfing all the other infantry.
In practice I don't see a complete overhaul of all the infantry squads ever being done. My proposal is geared towards 'fixing' OST without a major affect on any of the existing infantry relationships.
I just want proper play with OST to actually be rewarding instead of a 'meh' you did actually pick off a ton of conscripts, but since you never captured the fuel point the t-70 is going to wipe two squads, and decimate all the others. |
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TD are worthless for axis because the infantry can't spot and support for them.
Imagine 4 squads of either flavor of grens charging into 4 double bar rifles to spot the jackson for that last hit. It just doesn't happen. The grens will get wiped, or at the minimum you'll get snared and lose the TD.
4 double-bar rifle squads charging into 4 gren squads to get LOS for that last hit on the tiger though? Happens all the time. |
It is the other infatry that need to be toned down and not the grenadiers that need a buff.
It seems a bit unrealistic to adjust 4 other armies to bring them into balance with one under-preforming army yeah? I understand where you're coming from I think, but it's going to be much easier to buff an under-preforming army than to nerf 4 over-preforming armies.
Why all this buffing with things other units have or invent new wheels?
Dps increase is already in doctrines for ost. Hp increase as well.
If you want either play those doctrines. Like soviets have to do for ai upgrades or better tanks.
Al lot of the complaints seem to stem that x units have this and that, thats why grens struggle.
Because the con gren matchup is the most balanced imo we do not want to mess with that.
Instead of buffing we should start nerfing. Grens are working as intended except the faust bug. Wfa inf and penals are too good atm.
The whole purpose of the proposal is to make grens different, and better at their specific role, without seriously affecting the other armies. Literally everyone is going to complain if you try and nerf all the other armies based off grens being underpowered. Just look at how many people are complaining now. |
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