Profile of porkloin

Cons cant contest pgrens that cap or nulify a territory point.
Cons need to stay at range or be slaughterd. Also being a static vunerable target to the more accurate and better barrage ost mortar while they stay at range. That sitiation happens to other inf as well. It depends on the preferred range of the squad.

While ost lacks hp on inf they make up for that with very potent grenades. Self heal on the field. Doctr and Non doctr upgrades. Superior team weapons, sturdiers. The most cost efficient at mine. Extra sight on pio,s to better utilize support weapons. And popcap free mg bunkers.

Wich esp sov lacks on but they have the biggest squads.

I can't think of very many points on the map that don't have a green cover spot or building near the cap points, so conscripts can in most cases contest pgrens capping a point, and this the most extreme difference in infantry quality.

Using panzergrens to flip a standard territory point once in cheat mod with conscripts nearby:

Conscripts in green cover ends up 6:2 in the conscripts favor.
Conscripts in yellow cover ends up 5:2 in the conscripts favor.

Ost mortar is a a very bad investment in 1v1s, though I won't speak for team games. Theres no unit that can spot for it for very long, and most allied squads will be charging the spotter. The mortar itself can be charged quite easily and naded as well.

Ost has a problem. While the army is balanced around having strong crew weapons, it's obvious that spending the whole game suppressed by MG42s is poor gameplay.

Unfortunately the army as a whole is a bit under powered. I believe that this is due to the neither hot nor cold approach of balancing the 4 man squads. Grens, and even panzergrens have a bonus to RA, and individually strong weapons, but tend to be overwhelmed further and further as the game goes on. While the RA bonus is nice, either flavor of grenadiers don't have the damage output to force back flanking squads, or to claim territory. Even if you've got a gren squad already in position, a conscript squad can de-cap a cutoff and retreat with 3 models left. Since gren damage is biased to long range combat, you're unable to move in and contest the point unless you want to lose the engagement.

The low damage comes with another problem, namely a huge vulnerability to indirect fire. Since it takes so long to win engagements grens are sitting ducks for mortars etc. The low damage also reduces field presence. In the time it takes to actually win a fight the allied player has had much more time to reinforce their other squads that can now challenge that section of the map.

Finally comes the late game problem. Since all allied armies have a trump option available to them that will win out against grens and panzergrens, OST is rarely able to screen their tanks or AT guns. While they might have stronger armor by comparison, that armor tends to be less effective since you can't push forward with infantry to get LOS, nor can you fend off snaring squads.


In order to help bring OST into balance, without throwing off the early game too much I think that both grens and panzergrens should have their RA reduced by about 10%, but are given higher damage, mostly accuracy, to compensate. This would give OST players greater rewards for good play, while still preserving the glass jaw aspect to their infantry. The matchups would still play out the same, but grens would now be something you *have* to deal with before capping the cuttoff out in the open, or brazenly marching past to throw a grenade on the MG42. In order to keep grens competitive for the late game battlephase 3 and 4 should both come with a 5% bonus to RA. If possible I think a 10% 'armor' to explosive damage sources would also be reasonable.

At no singular second there is a situation where there is that specific unit composition you've mentioned going up against each other.

Additionally, KV-1 doesn't even do much except just being there, its B4, cons and ATG doing all the work aka combined arms - where were grens and ost pak supporting that P4? I've only seen almost suiciding stug.

Why do you feel the strong urge to lie and provide a proof of lies in the same post?

Grens and Pak were cowering in the corner hoping the shock troops won't steal their lunch money for the fourth time that week. OST will always be outclassed in late game infantry. If they don't have armor parity they can't leave the base.

It's nice that people are pointing out that you can counter a churchill if you dedicate 30% of your pop-cap to strict AT units, but it misses the point. In an even fight, say 4 grens, an AT gun, and a panther vs. 4 IS, an AT gun and a churchill, it is the grens who will be pushed off the field. The Pak might get in two shots before retreating while the 6 pounder can just be set on a-move the entire fight. If you lose the panther, and can't replace it it's game over. If you lose the churchill you'll still be able to field the 6 pounder safe from infantry, and buy a bunch of piats.

Allied tanks with large health pools in and of themselves aren't a problem. It's that the armor health pool supports the stronger infantry selection the allies enjoy.

Yes and no Sometimes the crew would have been KIA without penetrating shots. The quality of German steel was much worse towards the end of war. Very often it would brittle and kill the crew with debris and steel spinters without penetration. They would just come off from inside layer of steel plates and act like bullets flying inside a tank.

This is known as spalling. HEP rounds didn't even bother with penetrating the tanks, but had a soft head of high-explosive that would squish up on the armor and then transfer the force of the explosion through it.

I don't really see what's being added to the game here. MGs already serve to deny open ground. It makes no sense for a lone sniper to be an anti-blobbing unit. While yes cover can protect you from a sniper, sniper tactics are designed around drawing soldiers out of cover. Typically it's by injuring the initial target and then attacking rescuers.

'Disposable' unit designs don't work too well in this game. I'd never build this 240 manpower sniper. As is they're a huge micro investment. If you reduce their effectiveness there'll never be a payoff to such a micro heavy unit.