Profile of Mr Carmine

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 06:01 AMSerrith

Merge with combat engineers is most powerful in the early game as you can keep your flamethrower fighting enemy grens and pios a lot longer. In the late game, it's less impactful as due to lack of durability vet, combat engineers just die too fast to make it worth doing in most situations.


I'm ok with the pioneers being 200mp and CE being 170, even in the late game. What is a bit harder to swallow is 25mp reinforcement vs 21(or 20/18 if you use merge to save on mp).

It's the 25mp reinforcement that breaks the piggy bank in the late game, not the initial cost. That's almost as much as assault grens(26) FFS.

Jump back to quoted post17 May 2020, 10:06 AMachpawel

That is simply not true. CEs are better at engineering jobs as they do them equally well but at a cheaper price. I gave you a lot of arguments above.

No, they are not a real threat. They lose against frontline units as badly as CEs (though CEs charged by grens have chance behind cover). They are not viable combat units after first few minutes of the game unless upgraded with flamer where CEs are even better. This, however, has nothing to do with lategame problem of more manpower needed to replace and reinforce repair units. The fact that CEs are cheaper to reinforce and replace becomes a problem lategame.

It made sense before they were buffed, it does not make sense any more imo, especially lategame. It could probably make sense if they hadn't been given the possibility to increase repair speeds with sweepers. Because they did get it, the price and the reinforcement cost of pios seem unfairly higher.

That is a complete nonsense and simply trolling. Merge is the best reinforcing option as it costs nothing (no building or any munitions, fuel, manpower spent to have access to it). Through merge you can reinforce them for even as little as 18 manpower and in combat or while repairing. The level of nonsesnse you are producing here is so high that I can't believe you are not doing it on purpose.

They get wiped as often as CEs, depending on the level of player's micro. Because pios need to close in to use their guns the chance for a wipe may actually be higher. Also the fact that merge can be used in combat makes saving CEs from a wipe easier.

Another complete nonsense and moving even further away from the topic. Soviets have a lot of grenade options. Again, one prefers molotov, another prefers satchel and others prefer call in elite infantry grenades. It has nothing to do with the fact that pios are likely to drain more manpower for the ost player lategame than CEs for basically the same performance.

Again not related to subject and just too general to make any sense. Soviets wipe very well. They are more manpower efficient as they wipe well but just more cheaply. Their manpower economy is often likely to give them advantage. The example from this thread where it is clearly visible that CEs are simply much cheaper in the long run to reinforce and build is just one example. The author of the post found a real balance issue that should be addressed.

Jump back to quoted post16 May 2020, 08:42 AMKONIUX27

just make pios become non veterant 5men squad at vet3 (maybe same with the grens but not sure bout it) or added to t4 tech

Jump back to quoted post14 May 2020, 17:46 PMSerrith

The reason I dont consider pios comparable in recon is due to how powerful their spotting actually is. While it no doubt can help an MG spot an incoming blob a little earlier, 42 range is insufficient to provide much beyond that. Compare it to the M3A1 with 50 base spotting range, vet 3 M5 with 45.5, su85 with 75 on focus sight, recon T70 with base 52.5, hell even tracking su76/su85/zis/isu is 49... that 42 sight range isnt looking so good beyond spotting for your mgs.

It's not that having 7 extra sight range is bad, far from it. But the application for it is more limited then it would appear at first glance.


Lastly regarding combat engineers, just compare them in terms of cost effectiveness to conscripts. At vet 0, combat engineers on a per model basis are actually stronger then conscripts as they have 9% lower recieved accuracy then cons while only costing 5% more to reinforce. In terms of recruiting, they are a mere 6% higher cost per model.

On a per model basis, a vet 3 combat engineer with no upgrades is the rough equivalent of a vet 2 con. Pretty good for a spammable cheap to replace engineer unit. Obviously the correct squad ratio is 3 CE vs 2 conscripts- 510mp vs 480mp.

Jump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 14:37 PMachpawel

Nor the things you mention.

It is you who don't see how powerful tools exist in CEs rooster and exaggerate the power of tellers and minefiels, bunkers, etc.

Heal wastes munitions just like tellers and minefields can once they are detected. Heal can only work when no models were lost and still becomes a muni sink. Manpower in merge would be spent the same way whether it is through merge or base reinforcing. You can even replace an engineer model for only 18 manpower instead 21 at the base. You don't seem to see it. It will never be a waste, always advantage because done on the field and in combat and without the need to retreat a flame unit. Often it will save otherwise overextended unit. Instead of being wiped in combat the unit will continue the push. You are underestimating this ability greatly and overestimating ostheer's muni paid abilities. Mines and minefields especially, are very likely to be detected and make ost player waste munitions.

Yes. And also inflicts a lot of manpower bleed, which is even more important. Two gren models transfers to 60 manpower in case of grens. Even more in case of panzergrens. That is a lot.

It cripples the engines. That is enough on vehicles for 30 munitions. When it comes to infantry, demos can reliably kill an elite infantry squad. Mines usually kill two models, which transfers to sometimes even 80 manpower. There are no mines like that on ostheer engineers.

I don't really know how to respond to this. Soviet mines and tripflares are very cheap - 30 munitions and 10 munitions respectively. Demo is cheaper than a minefield. Do you really think that a visible minefiled with special signs on the edges kills infantry more reliably?

But they can become 7 men, have molotovs, hoorah, at nade and many other commander abilities. Their sandbags are free and can be combined with CEs barbed wire. You really underestimate cons.

It is a thread about pios after early game. Lategame pios are unnecessarily more expensive. In a tight match the possibility to quickly (more cheaply) replace engineers and merge into them while they are repairing help with saving damaged tanks significantly. It creates imbalance. That is why I believe a good solution might be lowering the pios price after the last battlephase to the level similar to CEs (or as somebody suggested to make them a bit cheaper after every battlephase). Alternatively, they could be cheaper from the start with a price increase on an mg42 not to damage the early game manpower economy that is quite well balanced.