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Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 16:20 PM The Panther is fine. Since SBP it does its job and does it well. Start another thread if you want to keep pushing your Panther ideas. As for solving the StuG and JPIV's issues with veterancy, units only gain veterancy when they're doing their jobs. If a unit requires veterancy to do its job, then the design doesn't work. The StuG either needs a munitions ability like the M10 that lets it fight heavies, or it needs to be able to do something other than shoot tanks. The JPIV is a dedicated 140 FU AT vehicle and I can't for the life of me understand why it's geared towards mediums in a faction that already has the OKW P4. It'd geniunely be more useful as an SU-85 clone. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Centaur or Cromwell? 9 Jun 2019, 15:44 PM Jump back to quoted post8 Jun 2019, 17:37 PMJae For Jett If you have anything of a fuel advantage, then the centaur. It simply impacts the field much harder than a cromwell does. Its a lot harder to use the centaur into an axis medium tank though, so if the map isnt open enough that you can support it with at guns, then the cromwell becomes safer when you dont have the fuel advantage. Honestly, cromwells are probably the weakest/underperforming unit in the faction. I've always gone for Cromwell for that very reason. I tried a Centaur today and wow that thing is so much more effective You need to build ATG support, but UKF needing to do something other than spam Sections is no bad thing. In: Strategy Desk
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 14:56 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 13:40 PMSander93 In a hopefully not too distant future heavies will be tied to tech, so it should be easier to replace a StuG with a Panther to face one. The notion of this is the problem. If the StuG is meant to become obsolete, then what do you do with it when it does? I can only think of four AT vehicles that don't have the following: High enough penetration to reliably damage the heavy tank from the front. OR A turret. High enough speed to get behind the heavy tank. High enough penetration to reliably damage the heavy tank from the rear. Those are the three low penetration casemates (SU-76, StuG, JPIV) and the Stuart. The Stuart has blind and a hard snare from Vet 0. The SU-76 doubles as an artillery piece. Both units have early timings. It says a lot when an IS-2's weight in Pumas stands a better chance than its weight in StuGs. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 12:20 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 11:13 AMSander93 When it comes to facing SU-85s and Jacksons, Ostheer has Paks and Panzerschrecks (and the Elefant) to deal with them. The Panther isn't meant to face off dedicated tank destroyers, it's meant to shut down enemy medium and heavy tanks, and its armor scales well against medium tanks and decently against heavies. But it can if it gets into 50 range without being shot. Two more hits. In your opinion, what would be the impact of giving the StuG switchable rounds that give it Panther penetration but only 80 damage? That'd give a StuG pair with the rounds toggled on the same damage output as a lone Panther. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SOV: Move T-34/76 to T3 and make T-34/85 non-doc/T49 Jun 2019, 12:15 PM Y'all know this is crazy, right? The T3 T-70 is already so strong it appears in almost every SOV game. The T-34/76... ...is only 20 MP 20 FU more expensive. ...has twice the armour. ...has 260 more HP. ...has twice the penetration. ...is similarly brutal against infantry. ...fires three times slower but at four times the damage. Think this through, people. 75 FU of teching is what makes the difference between Mobile Defence being the sole meta and being on the junk heap of doctrines. You'll break the game if you stick the T-34/76 in T3. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 11:44 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 11:30 AMVipper The reason it being debate in this thread is that Stug and especially JP get no penetration bonuses with vet. Instead the get armor bonus which are not really helpful. Penetration bonuses aren't helpful either unless the heavy tank player is kind enough to throw your JPIV/StuG some medium tanks to practise on. A tank destroyer is a reactive unit built to counter something. It can't have its core functionality locked behind veterancy. With the three Allied TDs it's not a problem because their penetration is already high enough. But vet-locked penetration bonuses for the JPIV and StuG would solve nothing. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Allied vs axis staying power9 Jun 2019, 11:37 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 11:06 AMSander93 I think the only problem is how terribly slow stock Pioneers repair. Soviets have a ton of doctrinal repair upgrades, USF have vehicle crews and the Brits have doctrinal repair and the heavy Sappers, on top of being able to vet their Sappers faster by giving them weapon rack upgrades and getting a fifth model with Bolster. OKW have fast repairs on Sturmpioneers (which aren't too hard to get to vet 2 either) and the Mechanized repairs upgrade. I think it wouldn't hurt if Pioneers minesweeper upgrade gave +0.2 or 0.3 repair speed. I guess Soviet Combat Engineers could get the same, but it's a less pressing issue for them (because of all the doctrinal repairs and low HP tanks). Could you kill two birds with one stone here? 251 Support Upgrade 30 munitions +80 HP (320 to 400) Adds a Repair Aura lockdown like the USF M3 used to have Locks out flamer That'd help with both infantry and vehicular presence, and would give you a reason to get a 251 for non-flamer duties. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 11:10 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 10:54 AMVipper When it comes to facing vetted Su-85/M36 the armor bonus of the Panther is quite pointless and the unit would benefit more from a different bonus. The penetration bonus on the SU-85 is also pointless if your opponent spams StuGs and Ostwinds. It's just the nature of the armour system. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 10:26 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 10:18 AMVipper Not really. You seem to have misunderstood the change in the Panther. Some of the power of Vet 2 panther has been move to vet 0 while the vet 2 Panther is now weaker than the old vet 2 panther. Patch change = Vet 0 Panther stronger, Vet 2 Panther weaker. It's weaker by 4 armour. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 10:14 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 09:43 AMVipper That means that balance relationship these units have at in vet 1 is disrupted at vet 2, for no good reason. The Vet 2 SU-85 has 100% penetration chance now because the Panther traded armour for HP in SBP. That's a buff vs the SU-85. In: COH2 Balance