Profile of Felinewolfie

SU76 needs to be nerfed indeed...Same as Stugs. Both units are overperforming hard.

But please no overnerfs again.

For Stugs a simple ROF nerf would be enough. SU 76 needs to get it´s barrage ability tied to Vet 1(or 2), ROF nerf and vet requirements increased. It vets way too fast right now.

- SU76 should lose some pen (it is high) but gain 160 dmg (from 120 dmg).
And change tracking vet 1 to Barrage vet 1 ?

Minus : Reduce Pen
Minus : Replace tracking vet 1 with Barrage vet 1
PRO : Change dmg from 120 to 160.
PRO : Give it AP/HE ammo like Sherman 75.

============

Otherwise :
Remove 50% dmg and suppression from MG.
Remove all HE AOE from Mortars/Artillery.
Remove 100% Pen from TD and AT guns.
Remove all snares
Remove cover and dmg
Remove all rock paper scissors dynamics.

Game now balanced. Everything is useless

- Panther : More HP. Shorter Range and slower : You just described a churchill.

- Making Panther tougher : It has 270' bad armor and 90' GODLY armor.
It has a LONG hypervelocity gun which makes it truely shit in the HE departement.
It's purpose is to deal with the T34/76 hordes.
(T34/85 was built to deal with the Panther, not the other way around)

- Allies tank destroyers make the Panther useless.
Mass MG42 make pure infantry spam useless. Your point?

- StuIIIG has better dps, is cheaper, and has more range.

- I think it's really obvious.

: What you would love : Slower brawler who is immune to allied late TDs.

That is completely the wrong approach.

: Make it a successor to the StuIIIG. It's a weird TD hybrid. Don't make
it more tank. Make it more TD.

It's not a brawler, it's a glass cannon with a god front shield.
Making it a brawler would be... like making MGs (Maxim spam?) mainline infantry.
It would be like making snipers mainline infantry, it would be like making TDs
into improved tanks...

If you want to do that, take out Panther and make it dosctrinal, and make the
tiger into the non-doctrinal late game unit. Seriously.

: If you buff it's health, allied TDs will just get buffs. Look at KT.
If Panthers have more health than KT... You're doing something wrong.


::::
My proposal :
Giving Panther xtra range, less armor rear, slightly more armor front.
(That 270'/90' armor)
Nerf Reverse Speed (If can do it to all tanks)(except Puma)
or simply : Remove blitzkrieg and put Stug's stun
Give it extra range.

So now you have a StuG (Same range, same Stun)(with better pen).
Maybe give it more ROF *IF IT DOES NOT MOVE*.

Then nerf the HE of it's main gun.
And buff it's three MGs
(Same thing that was done with the T34)

So now you have a StuIIIG with better armor, better health, 3x MGs
Weaker HE, stronger AI, that is slower. It also does a better job
vs late-game allied TDs.

It needs to be more vulnerable to flanks (270' paper armor)
It's an expensive toy that is hard to use, but rewards experienced hands.
It punishes people trying to use it like a tiger.
::::

If you want a slower, short range brawler, put a Tiger.
(which you'd have to nerf, because it'd be non-doc).

::::
Reply to Rocket
Side-topic : SNARES.
Germans having tons of snares : Allied have tons of tanks. So what?
Game is not balanced around equals. But balanced around inequalities.
Germans : Overabundance of snares.
Allied : Overabundance of Tanks. If you go all-infantry, then you are immune
to snares

Germans : Few Tanks.
Allied : Less snares.

Germans can have a lot of tanks if they put their mind to it.
Allied can also have a lot of snares if their put their minds to it.
British? AT sniper. AEC MKIII (Thread breaker?) Mines. Gammon Bombs.

Please. People. Stop bitching about 'unbalances'
unless you want game to be pure homogeneous.
100% Identical stats and commanders and units is path to true balance.
People bitch because what they want is contradictory.

For Factions to be different, they need different strenghts, different flavors.
If you don't want homogeneous, then you don't get to bitch about unbalances.

::::
ShadowLinkX37 :
(On your reply to Rocket)
No. You misunderstood what he was saying.
He was NOT saying 34-85 SHOULD have Brit Centaur AI.
He said Germans have too much Snares, which mediums cannot defend against.
If you take away medium's speed, they become useless and die.
THAT is what he said.

Reversing Tigers and KTs cannot be caught by allied mediums.
Allied mediums are screwed.
--
Calling him insane along with Katitof is not a proper reply.
- He doesn't want Centaur AI. He wants to advance more than 8 sec without being snared
instantly on all his tanks.
: Fine, benchmark.
: Panther is a medium tank. Panther is a medium TD. So much fighting over the Panther.
It's a special case. Like the STG44. I suggest we make it more TD, so as to prevent
confusion.
--
Rocket says : Allied meta is to go Premium Mediums to invalidate the Panther. He's about
right. Same thing as allied medium TDs. When Axis goes Panther heavy, the allies HAVE to
go Medium TDs
--
But if you make Panther into a buffed STUG, then dynamics are same as SU76 vs StuG
SU76 : Less health, less armor, more range. StuG : More armor, more health, less range, stun
(StuG has MG, too!) So it'd be in-keeping.
--
Rocket said medium spam works. He spams Ez8.
Ez8 is not a 'medium'. It's a Premium medium. Yes, there is a difference.
Like spamming Panthers is not spamming mediums. Ez8 is USA's Panther.
::::
InsaneHoshi is correct.
Not all axis infantry have snare.
- It's just like saying every Axis tank is a tiger
Allied don't have to deal with clown cars.
::::
Rocket :
- 90% of axis infantry do? - As said earlier, allied don't need to deal with clown car.
Axis do. Also, allied tank spam is way easier to do.
====
::::
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SweetrollNearTheDoor :
Why make Panther when 2x STUGs do better job of it?
I sort of agree. But can't be helped if :
StuIIIG is better TD than Panther if Panther is a brawler tank (ie: Churchill)
My solution is to make the Panther into a true TD. Then it's more than 2x pop of
StuIIIG would make sense and be desirable as such.

::: He is totally right. Go Brummbarr if AT guns are the problem.
::: He is totally right again. StuG is the linchpin, not the Panther.
====
====
Ez8 got a nerf? I wasn't aware of that. During the December Patch?
Someone care to explain ?
(800 to 720 health?)
====
====
ZombiFrancis
Most deflection damage was removed from the game.
Which, I feel, is a shame.
====
Rocket :
Is why Panther is useless because allied go mass TDs
(ie: He's basically saying MG42s too good at their job, infantry is useless, why
allied are going mass mortars)
(ie: He's saying MG42s are jobless because infantry is useless (because MG42 rape them)
so all allied are going mass mortars - raping MG42s. ie: Panthers are not the problem.
Allied mediums, even Premium mediums, are so useless that allied TD is the only thing
left to do.
====

Believe it or not the most common tank in British service was the M4A4 Sherman, developed to fit British standards, and every 4th Sherman in a tank column would be a Firefly.

So not to say that the Cromwell was a rare tank, it was certainly more common than the Firefly, but it still wasn't as seen as much as the M4A4.

So if we are to make a combat group it would probably consist of 3 M4A4 Shermans and 1 Firefly to keep it historically accurate, and perhaps like another combat group made up of like 2 or 3 Cromwells and a Comet but you'd of course be paying almost double that of the Sherman combat group as you said for example.

I'm still wondering about the Churchill battlegroups tho, what would be an ideal Battlegroup for them, maybe 2 Mk VIIs and perhaps a Croc with them, and if you go Royal Engineers you'd also get an AVRE as a 4th tank, something like that perhaps.

I'd kill for a Churchill Kangaroo model tho.

I heard it was mostly MkIII and MK.V Shermans though?
- How about er, making an optic illusion so you can't tell the Firefly from the regular Shermans?
(They camoe-ed the longer gun). Only revealed when it fires (the 17pdr reacted VERY differently.
The sound and the clouds of dust it threw up).

On the whole, though, I prefer Cromwells and stuff for the Brits.
Sigh, if only we could do something similar to NSD44 Do you own it?

Most games have the ability to show an un-identified tank as a Tiger (instead of Pz4)
and what not. I think it'd be fun. But would the essence engine allow it?

- A. Soldier : No. No, no. No, no, no, no.
Backaway from there, you are being BAD (ie: The Kangaroo). Lol.
That thing was a nightmare, it was.

Do you have NSD44?

That would be a very reasonable suggestion in my book. It would give it the clear role of a premium tank and so make it easier to compare with other factions' counterparts to it.

I find the issue of one of a kind problematic because it makes it difficult to compare it to other unit categories objectively.

For example the T34/85 and Ezy8 are both premium tanks. It is easy to compare stats of them to see which one is better. They perform identical roles so one can just test which one does better damage to infantry, which one has better penetration, popcap, cost efficiency and whatnot. Also they have a lot of similarities to their medium counterparts: the stock USF sherman and the T34/76 while having a higher HP pool. Ezy8 also has the ease of use bonus where you don't have to micro AP and HE shells.

Such objective comparisons are more difficult when Panther is in a Special snowflake category of its own and has no counterparts to it.

=================

Balance the Panther around the StuIIIG.
Why was Panther created? As an answer to the T34/76.
T34/85 were then created to deal with the Panther. Let's start with that.

StuG has max range of 50. Panther being a buffed StuG (in purpose) give it a range of 50.
Replace Blitz with StuG stun.
Nerf the AI of the 75mm into the ground. Similar to what was done to T34 (but more so)
Buff the AI of it's MGs (Around that of T34, again)
Nerf rear armor of Panther (it has too much armor already 180' instead of 90') the
Panther was never meant to be a damage sponge, it's more of a turreted JgPz4 with 3x MGs.
The speed thing, every tank should have their reverse nerfed to 33% honestly.

There you go, it's now like a StuG : A tank destroyer with more health, more armor, more MGs
but who traded range (60) for range 50 in return.

- Speed issue fixed.
- Clear Role.
- But buff it's MGs, they're pathetic.
- Not meant to be a brawler. A sniper tank with 270' shit armor? A brawler? At that price?
No. No. No.
- Nerf it's rear armor. Nerf it again. Take a real panther, take it's armor thickness.
Now take the 120mm (effective) forward thickness and multiply it by two (coverage. It's
covering 180' instead of 90'). Now take rear armor (It's covering 180' instead of 270')
and cut it in half. (Since you get double benefit, it makes sense to double it's vulnerability)
- Increase dmg to 200/shot. Makes no sense that Panther has less dps than a Pz4.
- Increase dmg of heavies to 200/shot. Makes no sense that IS-2 has less dps than a Pz4.

Anyone here plays Normandy Steel Division 44?
Anyone using the Panther as a brawler has to be insane

The Panther is a buffed StuIIIG.

That's the trade-off the StuIIIG does vs the SU-76.
SU76 - Less health, less armor, less dmg, no stun, no mg, more range.
StuG - more health, more armor, more dmg, has stun, has mg, less range.

SU85 - Less health, less armor, 160dmg, no stun, no mg, more range.
Panther - More health, more armor, 160dmg, get stun, 3x MGs, less range.

Increasing Panther range to 50 would go a long way towards defining it's role.

No health buff for Panther.

That would still unfortunately leave the question unanswered. It would push the problem more to the sidelines definitely but still be a lazy solution.

I'm pretty confident that as long as Panther has to cling to this niche of a "Tank Hunter" there will probably never be a satisfying solution. There is no fleshed out intended design for this unit category from gameplay perspective. (Can I even say it is a category of its own when its a single unit)

This unclear definition just leads to weird arguments used for the Panther like: every tank needs to stop to fire to maintain accuracy so Panther as well, or Panther is not a TD ergo it doesn't need 60 range. There are also such a wide variety of rework ideas because it's current gameplay design seems so peculiar. For example suggestions for the more lumbering meat shield like the KV1, a TD like a firefly, a 200 damage medium/premium killer come to mind. The issue is that it belongs to none of these categories, not a medium tank, not a TD, not a normal premium, not a heavy...just this weird Tank Hunter category with no other units to compare it to.

One word : STG44 'Nuff said.

I'd love it to be a 200 dmg AT killer w 50 range. Current armor.
1/3 Rear speed (should be that for every tank)(Except Puma).
Then buff it's 3x MGs vs AI (It's 3 MGs, people. Not 1).

What if it's one of a kind? It'd be like a sort of E8 minus aim on move and smoke
but better front armor and range.