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He's not really talking about the axis LMG. He is talking about if the Allied enemy drops one of its many weapons: BARs, M1919, Vickers K, Bren, PIATs, DPs, PTRS, Bazookas, then STG44 Volks can't steal them. It is not balanced as other squads with upgrades can continue to pick up weapons even though their upgrade involved more than two weapons (for example fusiliers with 3 g43).
I don't believe this would have been Relic's intention for the upgrade. It was part of the sloppy translation of Miragefla's mod ideas. |
There is also few interesting abilities like self emplacements and vehicle repair with AVRE or artillery cover, double salvage engineers with sweepers and paradroped support weapons so we can't say, it's one ability doctrine. What is more, in most cases, CV is rather an option than the a "must have"
Sorry there is a misunderstanding. I was referring more to the Tactical Support doctrine, not the AVRE one.
Yes I see your point however about the recovery engineers, however I still think the command vehicle is one of the main events of the doctrine. It would be like people picking the Jaeger light okw doctrine, then not spawning any. |
The Air strikes are pretty stronk.
Of course, but that means you are getting the doc for one ability. Im pretty sure most people choose a command vehicle if they pick this commander. |
It's still something to make choice betwen cancer or bigger cancer so I'm with it. With bren carrier you had no choice. What is more, AEC after all was helpful even in late game so now you have to play more clever than ever 
Yeah but why pick that doctrine if you have no intention of making a command vehicle? Just for the air strikes? |
Banning the UC from command vehicle? I don't like this. Unlike all other command vehicles in the game (from what I know of) applying this ability to a unit makes it fire and move awfully slow, that's why people put it on a UC.
Putting it on a UKF tank would be a huge waste of a tank, OKW can at least still have a front line Panther, OST have a snub P4 that good VS AI and can stand a chance to get out of an engagement. UKF will near HAVE to go AEC to save popcap and costs which is limiting play by removing bofors as an option.
Can't you just increase the cost of the ability and make it cost 50+ fuel? That way you don't limit the entire roster of UKF by using that ability, forcing AEC tech.
That or remove the speed reduction that comes with the ability...
There is good argument for removing UC command vehicle and you propose a good argument against it, that AEC is harder to kill.
I think you can solve the OPness by just having the free recon not be free. Or at the very least have a shorter flight and longer cooldown. |
The idea that Tommies are a long range infantry compared to other bolt action squad is misconception. As long as they have cover bonus they will easily beat grenadier at point blank...
Their main weakness is fire on the move...
Using his description, not mine. |
Ok. So what should tommies be good at? And why should anybody invest in UKF infantry upgrades?
Do note that:
- At some point we also need to consider the utility of Tommies to the cost disparity
- Received accuracy is a garbage stat for long-range infantry. Having veterancy bonuses slanted more towards hard-hitting accuracy is what makes a long-range unit scale well. This is why Grenadiers, who are so cheap, can punch very well above their weight
- The veterancy bonuses are applied ON TOP of the equipped items. Thus, further widening the gap between the LMG42 and the Bren gun.
Limiting Tommy Brens to 1 single one would make them:
- Unable to trade with the far superior utility-wise Grenadiers
- Make them completely useless vs upgraded Volks
- Make even fewer people consider to invest in infantry upgrades
But thinking about the faction concept, the UKF doesn't need to have the absolute best mainline infantry, because it has pretty fucking good everything else. It is the only allied team with krupp stahl equivalent non-doc armour (which is also on the whole better than Ostheer armour). It is the only faction with viable emplacements. Where do these major bonuses factor into your decision to make IS the equal of Grenadiers?
And I think it's a bit much to say received accuracy is a garbage stat for long range infantry. Just because they are optimised for long range, doesn't mean that every battle actually goes like this. Opponent squads close distance and received accuracy is anything but garbage then. You correctly identified the close quarters flamers as OP for long range penals, but you can't see how received accuracy benefits a likewise long range squad. |
USF LMG has equal stats to the LMG-42.
- Are you arguing that double Brens are unfair?
- Or are you arguing that limiting Brens to 1, with no compensating buff (and Tommies being what they are) would be fair?
If you are trying to make a point, I am not sure what it is exactly.
I am arguing that the inequality in lmg stats is fair as there are other relevant stats which give them balance. So citing the worse Bren stats as reason to allow two of them is bogus logic.
m1919 is clearly not balanced, but it's doctrinal at least and usf need stronger infantry as (aside from Pershing) they have paper tanks. To use that as reason to allow double Brens is also bunk. If anything you could improve the Bren stats a little but if you do this, at least consider other indirect stats which factor into balance such as timing and squad sizing and the original faction concept. |
I am expecting that the question to spring to everyone's minds is the following:
- Why only limit LMGs on Sappers
- Why not limit Bren LMGs on Tommies as well?
The short answer to that is that it would make Tommies suck way too hard, for their limited utility.
The more precise answer to this is that Brens are closer in performance to the DP-28 (37.5 munitions per DP-28) than the MG-42. What makes matters worse is that Tommies:
- Receive very little in terms of accuracy (Received accuracy is a sub-par stat for long-range units)
- Receive out-of-cover bonuses, which increase Cooldown Reload
To get a comparison between the LMGs, I mentioned, have a look at the following graph:
A more subtle point is that Tommy Bren guns are the most unreliable LMG in the game:
- 8-9 seconds reload time, compared to 3-5 seconds for all other LMGs
- The +40% reload time out-of-cover penalty can make it that Tommies can take up to 12.6 seconds reloading
Thus. To limit Tommy Bren guns to 1:
- We would have to buff Tommy Bren guns
- We would have to give something to Tommies
Although we had some plans about how to accommodate the change, the changes required went out-of-scope. Thus, these will have to be applied in a future patch.
Man, I have to take objection with your reasoning here. Did you ever wonder why the stats are imbalanced like this? Could it perhaps be because the two LMG axis squads are 4 men squads and the allies are either (eventually) 5 men or 6 men?
Similar reason why USF mortar should never have been equal to (let alone better than) OST mortar.
Sometimes I wonder... |
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