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Duhhh.... I'm talking about the flak and if you read anything more than the thread title you'd know that. |
So the cut off on the right side, behind the house on the middle, behind the train line, in front of the train line behind the fuel point ?
Rails and metal plays with both side having a half of the map and slowly creeping or you constantly swap between the 2. If you put the Schwerer on any side, this means you are playing for the first.
That's absolutely your mistake (and you are relying for emergency def in your partner) if both armies can't stop a major from running into your position, dropping 2x offmap into it cause your whole army is supposed to be fighting from that side with small incursions from your positions into the left side. If you have the left side and fightings towards the right, it's your fault if you put the Schwerer in any side besides your base as you are extending the frontline in such a way that it's irrelevant that you call a "strat" point a cutoff as it's way more vulnerable than it would supposed to be if you had the other side.
USF: armor (RNG bombs), infantry and the other 2 offmap requires a unit to get nearby.
SU: IL2 /AT nade bombing
UKF: Precision barrage, concentrated barrage
Check what commanders they have on the loadout. Anytime you play OKW, you should know that you can have your trucks been late game nuke by 1.5 offmaps if they have any of the above. That's not hindsight, that's knowledge and experience.
Same way if you are facing, say Penal spam (satchel rush) or late game Hammer (with gammon bombs). If the enemy can have a straight LoS into the Schwerer, then it's not in a defensive position.
It was not behind the shed on the right it was back from the munitions point on the left. The point is though that this is not that specific. A similar thing happens in a lot of games where the minimal effort to seek out the schwerer is rewarded too generously with a win in most circumstances.
The fact we establish is that the schwerer is not that useful being outside the base these days after allied power creep in team games. Yet this "free" emplacement is often tallied as a large plus for okw in balance discussions. Why not at least console those realists who know it's too risky outside the base with a discount or production speed boost? The points about USF free units is valid. Their destruction does not destroy teching and okw is the only faction whose teching can be destroyed by off map arty. |
The Flak HQ was never intended to hold points on the front line and as such should be used as a sudo-emplacement in the backfield covering an important rear flank/cutoff.
The people above me are arguing that it has to be this emplacement when in fact its actually a tech structure and should be treated as tech + a small defensive building.
The reasons it gets focused down so often is b/c most axis players are keen to have it as a forward building for some reason.
If you want a buff to its main gun, you should have to pay for it with muni.
Time to learn how to read. No one in this thread said schwerer should be on the front line. This thread was about it being destroyed even if it's back at a passive cutoff. |
North or south spawn ? Left or right side? How was it destroyed? By units or offmap ? IF you don't have a pocket healing HQ, a map small enough to have the Schwerer protected by at least one of the players at all times or if you are not spawned on the "defensive" side of a 2v2 map, you put it on the base.
Rails and Metals force the players bases to be divided, which makes retreating leaving a side really vulnerable.
On teamgames, value of forward truck lose value as they can be focus fired by 2 or more players units and offmaps.
Left side of south spawn, back at the cutoff. As soon as it was noticed, smoke mortar, call in arty and major arty made very swift work of it. I'm talking seconds not minutes. There were undoubtedly things I could have done differently but none which were objectively more correct without benefit of hindsight. |
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That could work Sinthe. Though there would have to be a module in the base which could be destroyed in base rapes. But maybe a bit too similar to USF where instead of free officer you get free truck with the tech.
Alternatively there could be an ability to salvage the schwerer to regain some of the expense, allowing it to be set up again without falling doubly behind. It's too luck oriented at the moment if the opponent's spot it and at what time. This game should not have luck reliance for such dramatic game changing events, only smaller ones. Relic rightfully got rid of squad wiping mines and made demos less luck oriented. Its fair then to do something to soften the momentous loss the okw face if schwerer goes down. |
Was it up to me, all tanks would have terrible scatter and most of their AI would come from MGs.
This would be fine if you also nerfed infantry AT and stickies. |
People seem to talk like it's a binary choice between building the Schwerer at the back of your base or on the front lines. You do neither: you build it in the backline where it protects you from backcappers but is impractical for the enemy to launch a full assault against.
I never build a Schwerer on the front lines (unless I am already stomping). This salty thread or whatever you want to call it is coming off of a game where I built the schwerer back at the cutoff for Rails and Metal just like you say. As soon as it was noticed, it was destroyed about 20 seconds later, just before my first tank was out. It wasn't long before I was dead as my teammate could not take up the slack.
Of course the opponents teased me that I shouldn't build a forward base then. And hence this thread. |
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Major arty was buffed wasn't it? Also it seems more people use the mortar flares from the soviets nowadays and there is definitely a lot more smoke.
Maybe a base bound HQ should get a production speed bonus then. There has to be something in return for the game design rendering one of the few advantages of the OKW (a free with tech emplacement) useless. |
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I mentioned this in the shoutbox but am making post about it instead.
Is there any point anymore to the Schwerer Flak if you can't really put it forward with the multitude of ways the Allies have to destroy it in one or two attempts?
So many people say to this, "Well you should put it in your base then". But then what is the point of it?
What if the Schwerer was somehow cheaper, but came without the Flak (to reward those who confine it to the base)? The option to upgrade the Flak at cost would be a very fast, almost instantaneous upgrade, to prevent being caught out in mid build if you do risk a forward base.
I think it is only fair to give the OKW something in return for volunteering to neuter their T3 by putting it in base.
Another common response to this is to put the Schwerer on a passive cutoff. But in my experience (especially in 2v2) is that as soon as the HQ is seen it becomes the focus for efforts to destroy it as it is the key to armour production for OKW and hence it's destruction is an easy way to win. |
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Think it's about time you changed your sig. |
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