Profile of Stug life

Jump back to quoted post4 Mar 2018, 09:37 AMVipper

And here lies the issue. Panther and Comet are not similar unit, they have different roles.

The comparison might even had some validity if they where facing equal threats, but allied TDs and AT infantry are more cost efficient that axis one.

To make thing even worse Panther is unit that is not actually balanced since it has trouble of its own and should not be used as benchmark until first it gets balanced.

Jump back to quoted post3 Mar 2018, 09:31 AMFiresparks

the panther have better armor(320 vs 290), Better Range(50 vs 45), Better acceleration(2.6 vs 2.2), better coaxial and hull mg (combined 10.43 at far vs 6.68) , better penetration (220 vs 170 at far range).

The panther was actually the fastest tank in the game before the british release. 6.6 is faster than either the t34 or the sherman tank, or even the jackson. The panther's native acceleration is also higher than most medium+ tank in the game, tying with the cromwell but losing to the jackson (3.0).

Aside from british tank, the Panther was basically impossible to flank barring glaring mistake. After the mega patch, british warspeed was also nerfed to panther blitz standard.

the panther's rolled gun accuracy is about the same as a comet with tank commander, because of range scaling.

the comet's max range is 45m, but its far range is 40m. This means the comet's gun accuracy is .03 from 45-40m because you're in the far range zone. The unit doesn't get any increase in accuracy going from 45 to 40m. Furthermore, the 77mm's mid range is 20 m.

Meanwhile, the panther's gun range is max and far at 50 and mid range at 25m. This allow the panther to gain better benefit from range scaling.

The panther's accuracy at 45m is .033, same as the comet with tank commander. Conversely, comet with tank commander at 25 m is about .0453, about the same as the panther.

This scaling also apply to penetration as well.

veterancy:
vet1 comet: wp
vet1 panther: blitz
vet2 comet: +35% faster turret, +30% accuracy
vet2 panther: +40% faster turret, +160 hp
vet3 comet: + 30% top speed, +20% acceleration (8.97 sp, 2.64 acce). crew auto throw grenade.
vet3 panther: 30% faster reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% acceleration. (36 rot speed, 2.86 acce. 4.78 sec reload)

pretty tough to argue against 960 hp and 4.78 sec reload. The boost to the panther's acceleration and Rotation speed also mean it can crush infantry, if not as good as the old cromwell.

170 penetration is good, but simplifying to "penetration of a tank destroyer" is again only taking into account label and not actual stats.

170 is basically the lower end of TD penetration in the game. the stug and jp4 both struggle against the heavier allies. The stug have amazingly dps (4second) for its price and the jp4 is durable and excellent against medium tank and TD, but their 170 penetration will struggle against allied heavy tank. (much less axis heavy tank)

Similarly, the comet's penetration of 170 penetration will struggle against axis heavies, something which the comet is sure to face.

meanwhile the panther have one of the highest pen in the game, roughly on par with the Allies' best AP weapon (the su-85 and jackson). Just stating "comet have the penetration of a TD" seriously misrepresent the penetration capability of the stug vs the jackson. They might both be labeled "TD", but I wouldn't want to be stuck with a stug against a tiger (or an IS-2).

The panther can reliably win against most allied tank, with the notable exception of the Is-2, which the panther can outrun. Having the panther means having the security of tank superiority over most allied unit.

The Comet meanwhile will reliably lose against the panther unless the axis had a bunch of bad roll, and the tiger and King tiger will roll over the comet. You definitely still need a firefly against axis heavy.

and the comet's current anti-tank strength is fine. Previously it was crowding out the Firefly. Now the british have actual need to use the Firefly. As I said the main issue I have is mainly cost and acceleration.


and lastly AOE and scatter. Unfortunately it's one of the hardest area to describe. Its aoe and scatter is roughly the same as the panzer4, but with a slower reload.

The comet is decent against infantry but no mean amazing. Its WP range have been cut down to 45 as it actually need to dive a bit to use it (no more wp sniping from 80 m). Natively, the comet fire slower with no mg, so it's actually worst than the cromwell, t34, panzer, and sherman against infantry.

Against, comet might have the AP of TD and the AI of a medium tank, but that's basically the weakest of the TD and weakest of the Medium. There's a difference between the jackson vs the stug, and HE sherman vs gun only panzer4.

the panther have the same mg as the panzer4, and they will kill infantry. It's not as good as an AOE gun but still there. direct comparsion between shell and mg is diffcult as they rely on entirely different roll.

Jump back to quoted post2 Mar 2018, 11:05 AMRedT3rror

Don't shoot'n drive. I wonder why I've never seen your kind complain about the accuracy of the Comet or Pershing.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2018, 13:57 PMKatitof

What...
ISG had to be nerfed to allow for pit nerf, otherwise it would be OP by outranging it with Basic fire and ist not like it was not already 2nd best indirect light weapon in game.
HMG43 Crew was OP as it were regular volks instead of usual gimped Crew models for all other weapon Teams.
If you did not believed 50 range ST to be OP, you most likely could not use it correctly.
AVRE is short cooldown AI precision strike against which you had Little time to react and it did too good vs armor being primarily AI.

As you can see, all of the changes were justified very well.

No consistency here, each of them was a different can of worms and each of them was handled differently, in single case to allow a nerf of powerful static piece everyone complained about.

Jump back to quoted post1 Mar 2018, 12:56 PMJohnSmith

The arguments to lower the armor due to axis having had theirs lowered is crumbling apart. There's absolutely no reason to blanket change something that doesn't need changing at all. These Allied tanks already have got other drawbacks for having slightly better back armor.