Okay... I guess?
I thought no one would pick 1+1 when you can have double M1919. But okay. Everyone can have different opinion.
Just hopes to see that from oponenet side than my side.
It has to do with one how wants to use his units and one is not forced to equip all his units in a similar fashion.
When you say "Yes the is no positive benefit of picking an M1919 and a BAR for riflemen either or is there?
Nice theory but false..."
you tried to point out that nowadays riflemen picks up both M1919 & BAR at the same time to be stronger inf. right?
I'm just pointing out that the reason behind of combination of both two weapon is because picking up two M1919 is prohibited ATM due to balance issue. If it was allowed, all would have pick two M1919.
I hope we are on the same page so far.
Duel M1919 are better at along range and at static play.
1+1 one make the unit more flexible since it has better DPS on the move and mid/close.
AFAIK UKF still can mix V-K with bren from M3 supply half truck.
And trust me, V-K is always better choice to use when you have option to pick one, There is a reason for bren cost 45 muni.
If https://coh2.serealia.ca/ still is correct, V-K also provides higher dps in long range than bren, and ables to fire while in move.
So yes, I second @Katukov on the fact that "there's not a single positive benefit to mixing brens and vicker Ks
not
a
single
benefit."
Just pick V-K when you can. Unless you are absolutely can't pay for that extra 15 muni. (Which is never)
It is not correct Vicker-K is a BAR clone so it is inferior to Bren at long range.
"Vickers K Light Machine Gun
To differentiate this weapon from the Bren Light Machine Gun, the Vickers K is being tuned to a weapon capable of fighting at medium and short-range that can also be fired on the move.
Vickers K can now fire on the move with 60% moving accuracy, -25% weapon cooldown and -25% weapon burst.
Weapon no longer wants to go prone when out of cover.
DPS at ranges 0/10/15/20/25/30/35: 12.53/10.81/8.44/7.13/5.99/4.93/3.97"
If it is possible to pick up two 1919 then yes. No insane person would pick up bar to save 10 muni.
But we both know we can't do that.
One can already do that with Raid section, one can pick 2 LMG (brens) or 2 "assault rifles" (vickers) what one can not do is pick a combination of weapons.
And bar provides plenty of positive benefit over defualt weapon so your comparison doesn't make sense at all.
Read at the context and as of what you have pointed out about BARS does also apply to picking Bren or V-K.
Picking 2 Bren UKF units (accept commandos) long range static unit, picking 2 Vickers make them mid range oriented with decent moving DPS and combining the two make the unit a flexible all around unit.
In sort there are benefits not matter which roots one follows.
I don't like these type of discussions so I'll leave it at that comment since you're usually very focused on the exact wording of posts: No, MassaDerek did not say the Opel gives more resources than the ZiS. He said it gives more resources as a general statement. Which is what the purpose of those trucks is. No comparison done.
This is plain English. I posted:
That the units are identical
MassaDerek directly quote me and directly challenge my point that they are identical and clearly claimed that Opel is better than zis.
If one wanted to argue that the resources can be put in better use one should start with "yes they are identical but..."
No one is debating this. It is still an advantage if you're able to choose more abilities to make use of your resources. Munition expenditure is very low on the Soviet commanders, the "normal" mun income can often cover the needs.
Fuel can also lose a lot of value in the late game if you don't lose many tanks. Munitions is always a limiting factor of any competent player though.
Lets face it opel/zis truck spend most of game on fuel focusing the debate on munition and especially on the lack off maps is a deliberate distortion of reality just to rant about axis/allies.
Munition expenditure used to be very low for Soviets but that is not the case anymore.
N one claimed this commander was overly strong or "portrayed" it that way. It is also not the point of the discussion. The point is that the design of the Ostheer commander ties in better with the truck.
You're the only one mentioning this phrase in this thread.
Really?
And what do you call these comments?
"Frag bombs are broken with how little reaction time you have to move out out of the way with support weapons, even wipes mainline infantry occasionally."
"Strafing run is a cancerous ability with instapin that will autowin engagements for you if the enemy doesn't possess a suitable AA platform."
in contrast to:
"M4C is arguably worse than a T-34"
"repair stations will be built at most 3 times in a ordinary game if at all."
It pretty obvious that there is claim that Ostheer commander has OP abilities while the Soviet commander have UP/useless abilities.
I think it safe to say that Opel truck and Zis trucks are identical and that neither Assault support is OP nor Lend lease/Soviet industry UP
Imo it also safe to say that MassaDerek post is a actually a rant about how "broken"/"cancerous" ostheer abilities are and how useless the Soviet abilities are.
i think that this thread exists entirely because OP got his infantry blobs decimated by hold the line
decapping front points ceases any effect of HDL there
and setting aside all the gaslighting, sector artillery is HDL but with artillery, and just as deadly. You should call off attacks and wait out for this sector defense barrier to expire, and then attack
PLS before posting check how the following properties compare between sector artillery and hold the line:
CP
munition cost
duration
tracking of targets
Well, Sector Artillery and Zeroing Artillery are similar in their area denial ability. Of course they also cost more and don't cover as large an area. If anything it can do with a slight cost increase I think. It's not a huge issue most of the time because Advanced Emplacements isn't a good commander overall and Special Weapons has a lot of other munitions sinks.
Nope the similarity end in area denial part.
Even so the difference in CP/cost/duration, lethality when it comes to Sector artillery and area when it comes to zeroing is simply different.
Katukov has clarified that he was talking about the doctrines. You're misreading massadereks post. His point is not that the Opel is better than the ZiS truck, but that it provides more resources >in a commander that can make use of them< as opposed to in a commander that can not make use of them.
I am not misreading anything it is written plain clear that opel provides more resources than zis and it simply wrong.
And even the comparison about commanders is not accurate.
Trucks can provide both fuel and munition and both industry and lend can make great use of the extra fuel with more fuel expensive Sherman and the KV-2.
On top of that the Soviet faction can make great use of the extra fuel since it be invested in a earlier T-70 or earlier 7 men conscripts.
Regardless of presence off map abilities or not in the commander Soviet can make great use of the extra munition also. Industry can build repair stations and lend lease can buy MGs for the Shermans/Weapons for Guards and that is on top of the stock uses of munition which the Soviet faction has many.
It did not even bother touching the claim that:
"M4C is arguably worse than a T-34 when we look at how useful it is in reality(except 1v1)."
which is another rant.
Not matter how one looks at it there is little indication that Assault support is an great commander as it being portrait here since it not really that popular.
The focus on the off maps is simply being used misrepresent the actual picture and claim that axis are OP and allies are UP.
The theory that Soviet once more got the sort end of the stick does not really hold much water...
No, no. This is probably lost in translation. They're referring to the opel blitz, but it's very obvious they're talking about the commanders.
Then they should be more careful about what they actually post because the daily rant about how everything axis is OP and everything allied is up starting to sound like a broken record.
Posting that "it provides more resources" is simply false and it is even in the patch notes:
"ZIS-6 Cargo Truck
The ZIS-6 Truck has been added to the Soviet faction as their version of the Ostheer Opel Blitz Supply Truck. This unit will allow select Soviet commanders to generate resources over-time, as long as the truck is protected.
200 manpower Acts like the Wehrmacht Opel Blitz truck. Unit can improve the resource gain of territory points it is set-up on."
I'm not "cherry picking mu" what are you talking about? It's an indisputable fact that the two sov commanders that contain a zis truck have no options to use a large amount of MU at once, unless you're hiding another commander from us?
Anyways, my point wasn't even that this was an issue. I was saying that SOV still has plenty of ways to use the extra muni.
Truck can be used both for Fuel and munition which are useful for both factions.
Talking only about the off maps which only part of the bigger picture is "cherry picking" in deliberate attempt from both users to present an identical unit as superior for axis.
Assault support Commander is not even that popular.
No this is not a clear case of "the grass is greener" this is a clear case of "the ostheer commander has more ways to use a large amount of muni float."
I definitely agree that they worded what they said in a confusing way, but they're right.
Still, though, it's not like you NEED to use the munis on callins instead of mines, ZIS Barrage, molo, etc. Assault guards have a pretty expensive but useful nade, and the M4C has smoke barrage for muni.
The wording is pretty clear and wrong (and cherry picking mu only does not real help either):
...
So yes, the Opel blitz is better because it provides more resources in a doctrine that actually HAS ways to effectively make use of the increased resource generation, unlike soviets.
Opel does not provide more resources it is as simply as that.
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