I think they kinda did made some mistake.
Just did a quick test with 2-man tommy with 2 vickers K. Running straight for 2 min and a 8 secs. yet 2 models are still alived. Took down it after they stopped at the end of the map. So it would take more than this if they kept moving.
I mean, there is other stats that does affect moving dps. but it origianlly took 35 sec to wipe entier squad stationary. It takes x3.65 more time to wipe in moving doesn't make sense to me unless it has 25% moving accuracy (which kinda sums up doesn't it?)
Where they in cover while moving?
If you are going to do the test on Vicker K about accuracy I would advice you to test with another type of infatry that does not have penalties like the raid sections/officer. |
The only problem is that it act as bar clone. Not the actual copy-and-paste. For example, bar has 70% moving accuracy to start with 
So have they made mistake with numbers? Or parsing went wrong somehow? Not sure at the moment
You have claimed that vicker K has 25% moving accuracy do you have anything to back up that claim?
Any stat on an reliable site or any test that would make such theory plausible?
Until you have something to support your claim I would suggest that you do not repeat with such certainty.
I personally have more trust in the patch notes than an unsupported claim. |
The reason I don't like to have debate with you is that you take all the words so "literally" without any sense of the context or common situation. I'm not sure what you think of it, but I think that leads to nowhere. And probably the reason many users in this forum is offensive to you.
If you do not like debating with me nobody is forcing you.
When some says something like
It just means what it says in general gameplay. It's not a statement that requires "What?!? Vickers K can't win engagement vs. assualt gren?! I SHALL PROVE HIM WRONG!" and go for 5-man bolster up & 120 muni invested tommies behind green cover and make ass. gren to run from the front from the max range with nothing.
If something it factual wrong it does not promote the debate on the contrary.
So point things that are false open the way forward.
And by the way obviously even 2 bren(90 muni invested) tommies behind green cover wins with 3 model alive  - 30 muni wasted with extra cost of a one man. Let us pray for his poor soul. -
Great.
Did you use sprint on assault grenadiers on approach? |
I'm pretty sure there is a way, I might ask for the maintainer of the https://pelando.tistory.com/.(Spoiler alert: Korean) He parses in-game data and currently all it's data are up-to-date with last patch of 2021.
It's either he or Lelic made mistake.
Since the difference of 25% to 60% accuracy is pretty big you probably test it yourself but timing the time to kill an entity moving and stationary.
I highly doubt that MOD team would make such a mistake thou when trying to create to BAR clone... |
Kind of off-topic, - But more helpful & productive than Vipper's word play -
Actually other stared with word plays and the trolling
but it is better to build two tank traps one in a horizontal & one in a vertical way. Using shift-build ease the pain of micro, and it is super effective.
Probably because if you build two tank traps in a row with drag, there is a gap between two tank trap that doesn't provide green cover. Building two tank traps in a different direction removes that gap.
Talking of micro of USF tips,
one more very useful micro for USF is when highly dmged infs. are retreated, take medic out of the AMB and use the healing skill(not sure of the name), and put medic back to AMB and turn on the healing. The healing aura from medic & AMB overlaps so the speed of healing is twice (or similar) as fast.
Glad to see that you agree that Protos Angelus claim is false. |
Grenade ?
Did you say anything about grenades? If you want to test with greandes I suggest you test it with a friend of yours. But I have to point out that IS also get grenades.
Is this what I'm thinking what it is?
Are you seriously trying to convience Vickers K rocks because 0 vet ass gren looses when diving in to the tommies with 120 muni invested behind green cover?
I never claimed that Vicker K rocks so pls do no put words in my mouth.
If Tommy looses to that fight, UKF might as well as just delete entire faction from the game.
I simply point out that the claims that Vicker -K "cant win you the contact" and
"get one of both and you failed your parents and your infantry's efficiency in all fields"
are false.
Is tommy with 2 bren even looses to that fight???
I suggest you do the test yourself instead of requesting me to test it for you.
|
Rather simple, indeed. A pair of bren will start to deal dmg from afar (may be event before the sprint if you can see fist) and have chance to drop 1 to 2 models as assault gren close the gap. One the gap is closed, with either combo you will have to retreat or at least move anyway so why bother a more expensive weapon which cant win you the contact. Do notice that while being chased by cqc unit, if you run backward (common reaction), you often cant fire back much.
and here are Tommies proving your claim false and wining the contact:
 |
You are probably referencing changelog(https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise/company-of-heroes-legacy/forums/5-company-of-heroes-2-general/threads/1307-company-of-heroes-2-changelog?page=1) which also says Raid section can upgrade 1 vickers K with 60 muni. when they can't
The site I often use to check stats of CoH2 unit says otherwise, so I tried to check it by myself with Attribute Editor, but couldn't find Vickers K stat but only "sapper_vickers_k_machine_gun_mp" which has totally different stat & moving modifier. Any ideas?
Vickers K Light Machine Gun
To differentiate this weapon from the Bren Light Machine Gun, the Vickers K is being tuned to a weapon capable of fighting at medium and short-range that can also be fired on the move.
Vickers K can now fire on the move with 60% moving accuracy, -25% weapon cooldown and -25% weapon burst.
Weapon no longer wants to go prone when out of cover.
DPS at ranges 0/10/15/20/25/30/35: 12.53/10.81/8.44/7.13/5.99/4.93/3.97
|
I don't know whos idea was it to make vickers K into Bar clone, but I can say that it was very stupid idea.
Vickers K did share similar role with bren, but performed slightly better. (Much better after price reduction & stat nerf)
And long range lmg suites well with Tommies who have very bad moving penalty & out-of-cover disadvantage.
Compairing it with g43 gren is not a great idea. g43 gives you 2/4 model equips with 80% moving accuracy with 60 muni and also gives you extra RA bonus. It literally turns the unit role to long range to mid range fighter.
(BTW vickers K has moving accuracy of 25%....)
Vickers K works well with officer (one squad restricted) / commando (don't have commander with both) / sappers (who are busy repairing with thx to repair speed nerf btw)
Main line inf. Tommy doesn't benefit much from it. Ofc it is better than default lee-enfield, so I'd pick one up when I can. But previous version was much easier and better to use.
And raid sections.... they are just a joke. Why would I want to use clone riflemen squad w/o snare?
Vickers K still has 33% chance of dropping, and probably thx to Lelic making programming mistake, RS can't upgrade 1 vickers K after dropping one.
Assualt section or tank hunter IS are pretty decent unit. But raid section is nothing but a waste of one skill slot IMO.
Looking at accuracy means is not the full picture since there are other modifier affecting DPS on the move and vickers K has 0.6 accuracy modifier and not 0.25.
DPS G43 on the move vs BAR on the move (0/10/20/35)
5.99/4.37/3.37/2.27 vs 6.79/4.83/2.8/1.7
G43 is only more accurate at long range |
G43 performs well long and short range and fires on the move so its assault type. and they can trade well vs riflemen in short range, dont believe me just see it yourself via cheatcommand. i compare to fallschirm cuz they both good long and short range of course fallschirm is better because the damage is higher, i didnt say theyre totally the same, i didnt say i dont like m3 (not m5 btw) you clearly didnt read carefully. But if i have to change the vickers i say keep its stats because there are still units that use them well (officer, raid section) but the m3 drops bren instead
Vicker K is superior to G43 at all ranges and Tommies have better received accuracy than Grenadier and can get extra entity.
Depends on who are using them. Riflemen is best when using them cuz they are mid range infantry with best dps on the move while tommy being downgraded while using them because the rifle models dont work well with the bar models. Example: in long range only the rifle models deal damage while in short range only the bar models deal damage plus out of cover penalty. But do we have solid proof that bar and vickers k are actually the same tho. I believe the bar is better at some point
I suggest you tried double BAR riflemen vs double Vicker K men 5 tommies in cover to cover to fights and see who wins in what range. |
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