Profile of Vipper

You still have to take into account what the tech gives you. Allies just get specific abilities or weapons for specific units.

You say you will need to tech for it regardless if you use all it unlocks. The fact remains that ost and okw tech unlock more then allied regular tech. Like tech structures new ablilities upgrades and units.

You cannot simply add the total price and say, ha grens and volks are more expensive fuel wise while half of the tech costs grant other things then upgrades and abilities. Unlike allied side tech.

That is inaccurate allies get many things with tech:
USF tech
T1 LT (Squad with Thompson/bar cost 300)
T2 CT(Squad with Thompson that can upgrade bazooka, production speed buff cost 320)
T3 Major (Squad with Recon/FRTP/off map arty cost 160)

UKF tech
T1 (unlocks medic kit/Pyrotechnics 1 base gun)
T2 (unlocks 2 base gun)
Anvil/hammer (air-bust shells/Advanced warning/heavy engineers)(Vehicle trucking/gammon bomb/emergency war speed)

Soviet compared to Ostheer get some free staff also like: Free Penal PTRS upgrade, free grenades for doctrinal infantry.


And again the main disadvantage Ostheer have is they pay for the tech regardless if they use it or not.

Ostheer player will pay for lmg, shreck bundle grenades,... even if they do not uses this items once. Ostheer do not have any real advantage when it comes to teching.

I will not provide links to videos to tactics which were used, discussed and abused years ago. It's pretty pointless, utterly petty and disrespectful to have to request a fellow community-member to have to go back through countless materials just to satisfy some player-experience based-anecdote. Additionally, it drags things off-topic. Also, you could have also asked for videos for when double snipers were used before WFA to satisfy my quote - and I believe there's absolutely no point to show videos of that either, as it's just old stuff from years ago that people just did alongside experienced higher ranked players with countless CoH2 recalling the validity of such tactics.

In either case, you may firmly remain by your conviction that player experienced things may have not happened before unless proven to you - and I do not wish or intend to change your stand on things.

It's a simple request made in a polite manner.

There is nothing "petty" or "disrespectful" about it. You brought up 221 spam as an argument not me.

Feel free not to provide any evidence of 221 spam.

Only I don't remember 221 spam being a valid 2vs2 tactic or even in the meta and allot have changed since then especially early option against armored cars.

Actually the only time when there was an issues was when the 221 was removed and replaced by 222 and it was the 222 that was being spammed.

Patch notes:
"222 Scout Car

The 222 also wasn’t scaling with veterancy as well as other light vehicles and suffered from inconsistent damage output preventing it from tracking infantry properly. We also felt that the auto-cannon was too reliant on AOE for damage. Another concern with the 222 was that it was too cheap relative to its performance,

Manpower cost increased from from 210 to 250
Fuel cost increased from 15 to 30
...."

The 222-221 is hardly off Topic since OP clearly says that 222 does not seem to be a good counter to sniper.

The question still remains why in your opinion 221 will create "loads of problems, especially against USF."

Well, I can not take seriously half of the stuff you write, being 4v4 examples from a player who struggles hard for 50% win ratio despite massive 'experience', yet I am not reminding you of that in every single post.

Relic removed stuff from the game, because it was either non functional or created balance problems.
That stuff is not coming back outside of mods.

You are asking for re introduction of massive balance problem.
I am telling you this will not happen and if it will, most certainly not in a way it used to be.
You remain by your conviction.

Pls elaborate why in your opinion the 221 is a "massive balance problem".

That isn't an accurate comparison. In a vacuum, double BAR'd rifles cost 280mp (squad) + 150mp/15f (weapon racks) + 120muni (double bars), totaling 430mp/15f/120muni, whereas LMG grens cost 240mp (squad) + 100mp/40f (T1 tech) + 60muni totaling 340mp/40f/60muni. The thing is, though, even with an extra 60muni, you still can't double-upgrade grens, so the muni argument is kind of moot since spending extra isn't a possibility for one side.

So really it's "Why should a 430mp/15f squad be weaker than a 340mp/40f squad?".

The answer is, they should be about the same; 90mp for 35f is a pretty good trade.

You also have to to add the cost of the T1 building to produce the grenadiers.

That is not accurate either.

The 100mp and 40 fuel unlock more then just the lmg42. It gives you the rifle grenade as well. It also give a tech structure wich in turn give acces to better units. The unlocks for bars zooks and grenades dont.

So of that 40 fuel only 15 is for grens directly. And that grants you the lmgs and rifle grenades.

Rifles are the only nondoc capable inf for usf. Ost gets 2 okw gets 3 and both also have good non doc inf. Rifles are more expensive then both grens and volks. Thus rifles should be a bit better overall when max upgraded.

That is incorrect one does not have the option to pay just 15 FU for the LMG, you have to invest the total even if one never plans to use it. And that is part of the reason why g43 are so popular.

The difference here is that USF and UKF can chose if and when they want to invest in something while especially Ostheer have one of the most rigid non rewarding tech structure.

Overall I would say Ostheer are in disadvantage when it comes to teching.

still using cruzz's forumla?

I use both, as you can see the DPS I provided is at different range than yours.

In addition the number you provide say the same story. M3 DPS is superior to that of the m20 in many ranges.