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Thread: KT, Why?4 Jul 2016, 11:07 AM Jump back to quoted post3 Jul 2016, 18:47 PMButcher OP has a point though. The moment you destroy the Schwerer HQ you can count on the opponent to field a KT rather than rebuild it for 120 fuel and field a Panzer IV for 150 fuel = 270 fuel... that´s pretty much the cost of the KT. Thus you haven´t done much damage to the OKW player when destroying the HQ. I think Butcher has caught the gist of the thing here. There are two minor nuisances at play here, that conspire together to create an annoying situation. (Assume that teching costs are equal among all factions), the truck feature of OKW presents them with a risk-reward thing for their T4: - They get a flak emplacement mounted on the truck, for free. - .. but, if they lose the flak emplacement, they can't summon armour/elite infantry Depending on how often you manage to lose your first T4, you either massively benefit from that feature (free lockdown on your cutoff), or you are royally screwed by it. However, the KT, and the call-ins available to many OKW commanders all conspire to completely negate the risk part of this risk-reward: - I opportunistically lock down some territory, and start production as usual - If my opponent takes down my free flak emplacement, I opt-in to one of the call-in commanders; I'm saved. Basically, the best solution I can think of is along the lines of: Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 10:28 AMtightrope I'm in support of trucks being rebuilt at reduced cost and requiring all of them to build the king tiger. I'd tweak the T4 as follows: - First T4 costs as much as it currently costs - In order to unlock the Flak emplacement feature, you pay ~300MP/70FU on top of that - If you lose your T4, you can replace your T4 for free (you only pay for the sWs truck cost) - Each time you want to reenable the flak cannon, you have to pay the same premium (300MP/70FU) - (flak cannon gets attack ground) Although this didn't present an issue before, the MedHQ pricing is also inconsistent (to OKW's detriment, though). It would be nice if it was tweaked in a similar way: - MedHQ costs nothing to deploy (except for summoning the truck), and you get access to healing from the get-go - To unlock reinforcement point/T1 units you pay a premium (equal to the cost of the current T1 + healing unlock) (to get credit for the KT, you obviously need to have researched the MedHQ upgrade) If we change the OKW truck system to work like this, I don't think it will matter to anybody, any more, whether the KT requires all trucks up to be set up or not. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: OKW Infantry4 Jul 2016, 10:32 AM Jump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 00:23 AMelchino7 The problem is that on practically EQUAL DPS, RNG has a huge factor on the outcomes. A Volk STG is always superior to the Kar in terms of DPS but it also means it relies less on RNG outcomes. It also has the benefit of getting scatter hits which can't be calculated. On top of that, the STG seems to be less affected by moving than kar98 is. On top of the moving accuracy things, STGs are a slot weapon. Which means, as your squad members gets depleted, you are going to be saving up most of your DPS as you run close (similar to how LMG Grens operate). If you are floating munitions, I would say that the STG is a no-brainer; except for the fact that it eats up all your weapon slots. However, given Volks' crappy veterancy stats, you aren't missing anything, either way. (give any dropped LMGs to Sturmpioneers instead; you have a terminator squad in the offing). In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Cruzz's The More You Know2 Jul 2016, 11:15 AM Jump back to quoted post2 Jul 2016, 10:57 AMCruzz http://pastebin.com/1RMUDU3q Finally got around to testing how burst values work, and as usual I had gotten it wrong. Rounds to next integer for the rofduration calculation. And it's not a 1+rofduration, just rofduration. You mean number_of_bullets = ceiling(rofduration) ? That should be almost equivalent to 1 + floor(rof*duration), except for the cases where rof and duration are perfectly aligned. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: June 29th Hotfix1 Jul 2016, 21:23 PM Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2016, 19:11 PMJohnnyB Try put them fighting one against the other. Good luck winning with the ostheer mortar. Believeing just in figures doomed this game. Personally, I find it futile to build mortars just so that I can counter enemy mortars. I build them to bleed LMG infantry, to destroy MGs, to harass garrisons. As I mentioned in my previous post, Ostheer excells in raw firepower. Having said that, I have never, ever lost an 1v1 mortar fight as Ostheer vs Soviets; and I didn't have to do much to do this: - Use your pioneers to get vision of the enemy mortar. FoW-fight -> high RNG -> chance you might lose. - Use the fact that the Ostheer mortar (still) has insane firerate when barraging: barrage -> relocate -> barrage Statistically, the odds are on your favour. If you also have vision on the target, it's a near-guarante you wil win. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Any reason for it?1 Jul 2016, 21:14 PM Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2016, 21:00 PMOZtheWiZARD That's f.ing hilarious and utter ballocks! Sinthe has shown you a way how to measure that. If you mistrust him, you can go ahead and replicate the experiment yourself. My expectation: - Equal-vet T-34/85 will wipe the floor with P4 - Vet3 P4 has decent chances of beating Vet0 T-34/85 (something like 60%-40%) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Any reason for it?1 Jul 2016, 14:37 PM Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2016, 03:33 AMsinthe As strictly allies? T34/85 vs oh P4 on anti inf (30 samples total): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4koTutTHuHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7h0txMUPw Let's compare the t34/76 to the p4 Pen: 100 to 110 Armour: 150 to 180 Scatter: 6.9 to 6.4 Reload time: 6.23 to 5.63 Speed: 6.5 to 6.2 Where is the cost difference justified? The youtube test is a good idea. However the execution is flawed: - Why is the P4 engaging shocks troops whereas the T-34 is engaging Pfussies? You know that Shocks are extremely resilient to small-arms fire. Right? - You need to keep Hull MGs faced towards infantry; for some tanks, they deal a significant amount of damage - When you use attack-move, the tank will engage at max range (40), which is well out of range of their MGs. You can see that in your test, the T-34s happened to be in range with their MGs, while the P4s weren't. - Not all Hull MGs have the same DPS profile. To get a better idea about a profile, you can compare commando SMGs to PGren assault rifles. At point-blank range, commandos deal more DPS. However, their DPS drops off steeply after range 10, whereas PGrens still deal pretty good damage up until range ~25. T-34 MGs seem to have been overbuffed. That's it. Since T-34/76 and T-34/85 share the same MG, both tanks have received the buff. This puts their MG DPS on an equal level to a fully-upgraded OKW Panther (The OKW Panther has higher MG DPS than the MGs of OST P4. Go figure). If we disregard the MG shenanigans. The comparison between P4 and T-34/76 is a bit flawed. The cost difference is justified because: 1) The P4 is better than the T-34 in every single aspect (bar MG damage). Some stuff you've missed: - You have mixed up the scatter values for T-34 and P4 - P4 has better AoE (with better reload, that becomes even stronger) - P4 has 6.3 speed. With Blitzkrieg that becomes 8.5 - Same with acceleration (P4 acceleration almost equal to T-34, but with Blitzkrieg, forget about it) When you take the time to cite stats, please also put the effort to doublecheck what you post. - Not everybody on this site has the ability to doublecheck what you are posting is correct. - It's not a nice thing to spread misinformation. 2) You are neglecting Veterancy stats. Again. Since P4 is more durable than the T-34, it will have an easier time attaining/retaining that vet level. 3) The T-34 comes later than what its combat abilities would imply. In order to have any hope of being relevant on the battlefield, it has to be efficient. Micro tax is the most important resource in this game. Second to that comes Manpower (especially in the late-game) Then, comes fuel (or munition for certain doctrines/factions) Have you ever tried playing Soviets, and tried to counter Panther spam with T-34 spam? Try it 1-2 times, and you will see what I mean. 4) The T-34 is an end-game unit for the Soviets. There is no OST T4 option for the Soviets; you are stuck with T-34s and SU-85 until the game ends. Would you ever build an OST P4 60 minutes into the game? - Hell no; you would build Brummbars/Panthers/Stugs, depending on what you face - The Soviet still has to build T-34s because there's nothing else on their T4 (and SU85 can't hurt infantry) Jump back to quoted post1 Jul 2016, 13:38 PMStug life all of you forget accuracy in the equation all allied tank get 0.75 on the move AXIS TANK GET 0.5 and tank fight while they move unless you wanna get flanked the Cromwell simply crush the ideology being literally the best and cheaper tank Note that there is also a secondary component to moving accuracy, and that's moving scatter: - Most tanks have 2.0 moving scatter (including OST, Soviet, UKF) - Most USF tanks have 1.5 scatter - OKW Panther has 1.7 scatter - Easy8 has no scatter penalty. Since you mentioned moving accuracy. Notable exceptions to the rule you mentioned: - All Soviet tanks - AEC - OKW Panther (0.65) Accuracy penalty is still a penalty; not a bonus. You can circumvent it by: - Moving close (where your shots won't miss anyway) - Tapping stop before firing, and continuing (that's good practice regardless of faction). If you time this correctly, your tank will continue moving while you fire. The P4 has better odds of beating the Cromwell if both are stationary. If the Cromwell is moving while the P4 is stationary, the Cromwell will lose hard. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Relic! Take stat for USF Mortar from Miragefla mod 30 Jun 2016, 22:26 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Jun 2016, 10:06 AMTiger Baron Hey I only suggested they use the mortar model not the 81mm entity. >:\| In: COH2 Balance
Thread: June 29th Hotfix30 Jun 2016, 17:02 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Jun 2016, 16:53 PMJohnnyB hurray, enjoy your balanced mortar, USF fanboys! hehehe. Meanwhile the most patetic mortar in the game, you guessed, ostheer's one, is being more and more obsolete. The weakest game start possible in COH2 = ostheer's Stats would have to disagree on this one. The worst mortar in the game, bar none, is the Soviet stock mortar (however it makes up for raw firepower with utility). Both the Soviet and the Ostheer mortar have the same scatter area size (albeit with different geometry; one is shorter but wider than the other). However, Ostheer mortar has massively better fire-rate (especially during barrage mode). (USF Mortar stats are a disgrace, nevertheless) In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: June 29th Hotfix30 Jun 2016, 14:27 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Jun 2016, 14:17 PMRappy Let's all just be quite honest here though. It took the skeleton at Relic almost a week to fix 4 lines of code (and they failed). I think it's safe to say NONE of what you suggest will ever be undertaken. Not until there is an about turn from the management. That's why it's important that the trend of community-driven balance mods continues. However, in order for this to work, the community (i.e., each individual member) need to leave their biases aside and promote changes that improve strategic diversity/quality of life/enjoyment for all factions. e.g., check some of the changes proposed by Firesparks. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Any reason for it?30 Jun 2016, 13:37 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 22:48 PMTobis The t-34/76 mg buff affects the t-34/85 too? Yup; they both (still) use the same hull & coaxial MGs. Before you ask, these seem the only 2 vehicles affected by the MG buff (other soviet vehicles use different weapons). In: COH2 Balance