and yet the okw still dominate 3v3 and 4v4. you just can't claim "big picture" and yet disregard part of it. If they wanted to address 4v4, they should nerf the Jagdtiger. |
Sturmpioneer is the only other unit I think the Shreck makes any sense on. Nobody's gonna put them on Obers even if you had the option. Too expensive. |
My main point: OKW is kinda-sorta balanced in 1v1 at the moment. This patch would completely tilt balance in favor of the Allies. Who has most/least manpower costs to tech is irrelevant. The big picture of overall balance is what matters here. |
I'm just trying to figure out why OKW is getting hit - and getting hit pretty hard - by a nerf bat when they're only overperforming in 4v4 (a gamemode nobody here purports to take seriously anyways). Meanwhile, the Allied factions all get a number of buffs. Only significant Allied nerfs are to the Captain, Counter Battery, and Infantry Section veterancy.
And I know we don't take the charts all that seriously here, but statistics suggest the Allies are doing, on average, slightly better than the Axis in 1v1s and 2v2s right now. If this patch is released with the current changes, OKW might as well be removed from the game imo. |
What the hell am I gonna do with Volks with two StGs anyways? I now have a squad that isn't very good up close and a squad that isn't very good at a distance. |
OKW is gonna suck so much if these changes are implemented.
... So I lose Shreck and have to pay 15 fuel for Medics and in exchange I get a slightly buffed MG34 that arrives, if I go Mechanized, 60 fuel into the game. Yeah. That's real smart. And this is coming from someone who wants to Shreck to go. |
Flak HT is a beast vs infantry, almost instant pin anything out of cover and fast enough to kill half of any squad in one volley same in yellow cover. I don't know why you want to remove the setup time, the Flak HT is a defensive unit dealing a shitload of firepower and suppression at the same time in a short time period. In good hands this unit goes easily Vet3+ to late game. if you remove the setup time, you´ll make it completely OP. Flak HT is not that good lol. It's very good at suppressing but the only time it does good damage is if a unit gets really bunched up. Its damage is actually pretty mediocre and its accuracy gets screwed up by terrain.
You also forget the Puma, which is a great AT unit. Problem with Puma and Flak HT is they are dedicated AT and AI units, really good, but requiring micro. While you can have a-move blob of sturm+volks and then spec squads+volks or obers+volks. Problem with Puma is that no matter what you do with it, it's only going to be in one building, so you're not going to have it half the time. |
Basically I really want to get rid of the Volksgrenadier Panzershreck because I think it enables a lot of bad gameplay. (Not saying it's imbalanced, just that it's a bad idea.) Problem is OKW then needs to receive a bunch of buffs (particularly to anti-tank) to compensate.
Changes I also wondered about:
Flak HT cost reduction to ~40 fuel (to compensate Battlegroup cost increase)
Flak HT penetration increase (but worried that doing so will make it too strong against intended counters, like T-70)
Panzer IV fuel cost back to 135 or so (the current 150 is really expensive for a medium and with more expensive Battlegroup it would arrive later)
I have mixed feelings about the FRP. Imo the game's more fun when you can get your guys back into the fight pretty quickly (especially on really big maps), but the FRP does make blobbing much more viable. Also, definitely would not want to remove it unless the American FRP also gets removed.
Also, I think the following changes are basically no-brainers and require no real debate:
- Kubel capture rate normalized
- Walking Stuka damage against buildings moderately decreased
- Buff Flak Emplacement
- Buff Assault Artillery
- Buff Flammhetzer
- Fallschrimjager squad spacing increased
- Scavenge Artillery can no longer be used in the enemy base sector
- Increase Panzerfusilier popcap to 7 from 6 (the current 6 is lower than any other infantry squad right now afaik) |
I have better idea, how about we take kubel off and replace it with MG34 in HQ, which will be unlocked after building T1\T2 and after that we dont touch OKW what so ever. What are you going to do to Luftwaffe and Fortifications then? |
Because OKW remakes are in vogue:
HQ & General:
Increase Kubel fuel cost to 5
Kubel capture rate normalized
Remove Panzershreck from Volksgrenadiers.
Give Volksgrenadiers Panzerwurfmine anti-tank grenades (unlocked at building T1). Can be used at close range to do significant damage to enemy vehicles. Not a snare. Not a heat-seaking/homing weapon.
Sturmpioneer Concussive Grenades unlocked at vet 1 (previously vet 3)
Raketenwerfer cost reduced to 240MP
Sturmpioneer medical supplies munitions cost decreased from 70 to 50
Volksgrenadiers can now build medical supplies
Sturmpioneers no longer require vet 1 to build medical supplies
Decrease Sturmpioneer popcap to 7 from 9
Scavenging crew weapons now gives 15 munitions as opposed to 5 fuel (and more with Improved Salvage)
Battlegroup HQ:
Increase cost of Battlegroup Headquarters to 50 or so fuel
Basically remove Flak Halftrack setup time
Flak Halftrack damage against units in buildings significantly increased
Flak Halftrack accuracy less affected by terrain
Flak Halftrack fuel cost reduced to 40 from 55
Sd.Kfz 251 halftrack added to Battlegroup headquarters. Cannot be upgraded with flame projectors.
Mechanized HQ:
Walking Stuka damage against buildings moderately decreased
Schwerer HQ:
Jagdpanzer IV can now only camouflage while not moving
Decrease Jagdpanzer IV popcap to 12 from 14
Panzer IV back to 135 fuel
Doctrinal:
Increase Panzerfusilier popcap to 7 from 6
Buff MG34 HMG damage and suppression
Buff Flak Emplacement
Buff Assault Artillery
Buff Flammhetzer
Panzerfusilier squad manpower cost increased to 330MP from 290MP
Panzerfusilier G43 package no longer gives increased sight
Fallschrimjager squad spacing increased
Scavenge Artillery can no longer be used in the enemy base sector
New Commander: Assault Infantry Doctrine
0CP - Improved Infantry Weapons: Volksgrenadiers can now be upgraded with MP40 submachineguns and/or Panzershrecks
1CP - Infiltration Grenades
1CP - MG34 HMG Team
3CP - LeIG18s can now fire smoke shells to cover your infantry
8CP - Infantry Assault Artillery. Duration: thirty seconds. While active, all enemy units close to your infantry squads are targeted by an off-map artillery barrage. |