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Thread: UKF Commander Revamp 20217 Mar 2021, 19:55 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 18:49 PMVipper Advanced Emplacement Regiment Lend Lease Assault Regiment CP 0 M1 81mm Mortar Team 230 MP CP 0 Assault Infantry Sections 280 MP CP 0 M10 Achilles Tank Destroyer 300 MP / 80 FU CP 3 M5 Half-track 240MP/ 30 FU You missed: CP 6 Vehicle Crew Repairs 40 FU -> Edit: and it cost 40 MU at all commanders, not 40 FU (have a look at Mobile Assault, Royal Engineer and Vanguard) In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes7 Mar 2021, 18:15 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 16:44 PMPip ... Thanks for your feedback Soviet: Defensive Tactics Heavy mine: Yeah it sounds reasonable to put it on HT. Good addition. M-42: Since patch the buffed PTRS Penals deal 1,5x the damage of M-42, have their aim time drastically reduced and are way more versatile. M-42 will get less desirable for early game. Late game you need Zis either way. Hull-Down: I proposed KV-1 because it has Hull Down already and it is the only tank were it makes sense. You don’t want to have your T-70 or T34 in Hull-Down, they need manoeuvrability, you don’t want SU-76 or Su-85 either because of their fixed cannon. So it makes only sense at KV-1. Barbed Wire: Don’t know either, would be something unique for sure. Ostheer: Defensive Doctrine I do think the forward retreat point would be a unique addition for Ostheer, especially at that the big 4vs4 maps. OKW: Elite Armored Doctrine I do think we are of the same opinion that something additional armored would make sense. UKF: Commandos There were different kinds of Commandos and even the small Tetrach tank that could be dropped by Glider at CoH1. Maybe you could introduce a 4man demolition or AT squad that gets dropped by glider. Would be cool and in the spirit of CoH1. USF: Recon Company Airdrop: Splitted drop would be a good thing. Rifle Flares: Adding them to Pathfinder or Reserve falls is a good addition too. Greyhound: Yeah it is thematic but it sucks. Bind it to tech for timing across gamemodes and balance it around that timing. That would be okay. In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes7 Mar 2021, 12:51 PM Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 07:03 AMMMX funny that you'd want to replace the one ability (m-42) that makes this commander a viable pick for me. defensive tactics is ideal for t1 openings since you get anything you'd want from t2, and in case of the dskh and hm-38, even in superior form compared to the stock options. without the baby at gun you'd be forced to back-tech for a zis rather sooner than later, so imho one of the other mediocre commander slots (tank traps and those ap-mines no one ever builds) would be a much better candidate for an ability swap. You will be forced to backtech sooner or later nevertheless. With buff to PTRS Penals one squad is enough to fend off enemy light vehicles/tanks. You don't need a M42 for that, because you get all you need in T1. With a far penetration of 90 and a damage of only 80 this PAK is insufficient to fight mediums let alone a Panther, Brummbar or Tiger later on. Sooner or later you'll need a pair of ZIS which has exactly double pentration and double damage (yes, with lower RoF) while taking only one population slot more. It is way more cost efficient and can take on heavies. In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes7 Mar 2021, 02:37 AM I want to make a proposition for five commanders. All five commanders are medicore for different reasons and could be good with some minor tweaking. The idea is to put in not more than two changes to make them worthwhile. One commander for each faction - just to be fair. Soviet: Defensive Tactics This commander is not entirely bad, but it fills none of the soviet blank spots. Usually you go for a commander with elite troops, ML-20 or premium med / heavy tanks. With 4 of 5 abilities at 0-2 Cps and one at 12 CPs it leaves a huge gap in CP progression. I would suggest to swap M42-AT gun for a KV-1 or ML-20. Both would fit defensive thematic very well and would close the CP game in midgame without making commander op. In addition it would be an interesting option to add a heavy anti-tank mine like Ostheer Riegel or USF M20 mines. The Soviet had such mines too (TM-41/TM-44). - swap M42-AT Gun with KV-1 or ML-20 commander ability - add heavy tank mines for engineers with Advanced Fortifications (probably with additional T3 or T4 techlock) Ostheer: Defensive Doctrine This commander does a good job at digging in. But retreat of your infantry to you base means you leave your forward defensive positions very vulnerable to pushing. In addition I do think it is somehow unfair that Ostheer is the only faction left without one doctrinal forward retreat point at least. Especially at the big 4vs4 teammaps this should be an option. I do think it would synergize at this commander the most and would fit thematically. Just add a retreat point upgrade to bunkers which gets unlocked at T3 or T4 (similar to Soviet Airborne retreat points). - add forward retreat point bunker upgrade at T3 or T4 (only one change but a huge one) OKW: Elite Armored Doctrine This commander has too many situational abilities and the Sturmtiger is only situational good too. It could need some further armored support to live up to its name. Bundle emergency repairs and Tank commander in on ability and add either Flakpanzer or a Command Tank as commander ability. Both options should give somehow more armored punch. - bundle tank commander/emergency repairs - add Flakpanzer or Command Tank (PZIV/Panther) UKF: Commandos While Commandos are really good, the commander has just too much munition abilities. Activating each only once costs 510 munition. That’s way too much. Swap at least one of it for commander ability with dependence on manpower/fuel. I would remove mortar cover and add one of these three light/medium units: M3 resupply truck / M5 / Valentine. All of them would help to keep the aggression up in early/mid. - remove mortar cover (give it to some other UKF commander that needs an adjustment too) - add either M3 resupply truck, M5 or Valentine instead USF: Recon Company Greyhound and bundled airdrop are its biggest problems. I would remove the 4 CP bundled airdrop so that you have a Reserve Falls drop at 3 CPs instead. Alternatively you should build the Reserve Falls separately at your base at least and keep the bundled airdrop. The Greyhound is just too bad in comparison to all the other USF doctrinal vehicle options. I do think the canister shot was nerfed once too often. So either rework its timing/balance or swap it for another commander ability. Advanced Infantry Equipment would make a lot of sense for example (Rifleman flares = additional recon). Or add some sort of a medium vehicle option like M10 / 76mm Sherman instead of Greyhound. - swap 4 CP Airdropped Combat group for 3 CP Reserve Falls Drop only or make Reserve Falls separately buildable at base at least - rework timing/balance of Greyhound or swap it either with a thematically fitting ability like Advanced Infantry Equipment or an underused medium tank like M10 / 76mm Sherman In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes6 Mar 2021, 18:26 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 17:27 PMVipper The timing is in fine. The ability is already bundled with another conscript ability which is "hit the dirt". Once more if in argument breaks down to other faction have CP 0 assault your suggestion should be replace the upgrade with CP 0 assault infatry, it has already been done with IS. Vet 3 PPsh conscripts are more cost efficient than Assault IS and Assault Grenadiers. I always forget about hit the dirt exixting at all because the ability has so many downsides (eating grenades is one of it). As I said the 7th man is more desirable than PPsH upgrade. PPsH is somehow obselete in current version of the game. Maybe they shouldn't even try to balance PPsH and just take Assault Guards call-in (without M5), put them into the commander slot of PPsH and balance them appropriately for the given CP timing (that way you could integrate them at Lend Lease without M5 too and you killed two birds with one stone). In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes6 Mar 2021, 17:23 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 16:32 PMVipper ... In conclusion, if in your opinion Soviet need an CP 0 assault squad suggest that instead of asking to move the PPsh to CP 0. That would make both unit easier to balance. Since I'm not motivated anymore atm to give an answer to all the small aspects you commented I'll focus on your conclusion since you gave one (although I disagree in all of them but the last and would have quite a few remarks). About your conclusion: No, I'm not of the opinion that Soviet needs doctrinal 0 CP Assault troops, but neither USF, UKF or Ostheer really need one. Because of that all of them are doctrinal, for different openings with different commanders and versatile playstyle. Yes, Imo the PPsH Cons upgrade is rather underwhelming at its timing at 2 CPs in comparison to the timing of other assault options at soviets themselves or other factions. So either rework its timing, bundle it with another conscript upgrade or completely exchange for another commander ability. Replace it in Soviet Shock army for sure (since Schock army should keep Schock Troops). In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes6 Mar 2021, 16:17 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 16:02 PMPip It might be worth mentioning that unlike all the 0cp callin assault troops, Conscripts do have a snare, and their host of other utilities. The only other "assault" troop with a snare is the MP40 volk upgrade (I think?). Because of that I auggested removing the snare with PPsH upgrade already, if that is the reason they are so medicore at combat. Oorah is not different to Sprint from Assgrens (many other CC units have smoke to close in), Molotov has to be purchased and is awfully slow to throw. To be fair every CC troop can have some sort of a more damage dealing grenade (stock or upgrade). So whats left and unique about PPsH Cons? 1) Building sandbags, but not for themselves anymore (you don't want to sit behind sandbags with CC troops) 2) Merge. Yes, that still exist. Anything else? 7th man upgrade seems to be the better choice and you don't have to pick a commander for it. In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes6 Mar 2021, 15:25 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper As I said this is going to take a long time... There is no real relevance to CP 0 smg infatry and conscript. One is a weapon upgrade the other a call-in unit. It wil take a long time for me too... The relevance is: You are getting an assault unit in both cases as a result. One time as a call-in, another time buildable with upgrade. If you can't see a real relevance in the outcome here, I don't know what to say. Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper PPsH upgrade is doctrinal too, since it cost munition you Yes one has to manage his resources and that goes for all factions. With the "tiny" difference that the 0 CP assault call-ins don't have to pay munition for their SMGs. Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper Most SMG have harsh damage drop off and that is according to weapon profiles which is a great idea. PPsh conscripts retain more mid DPS that most other SMG troops because they still have 3 mosin. The damage drop off is surely a good thing, but that results in anybody using PPsH Cons at midrange to fight other infantry units beeing a fool with the exception of the few cases where they fight another CC unit while it closes in. Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper And that make perfect sense since 7 men ppsh would be broken. I have no problem with PPsH and 7th man upgrade locking out each other, but the existence of the nondoc 7th man upgrade does make the PPsH upgrade even worse, because I do think 7man cons are the better choice for the late game. Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper Yes they are but moving the upgrade to CP 0 solves none of them Then move CP0 assaukt troop call-ins to 1 or 2 CPs too. Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper PPsh conscript are inline with other smgs troops for cost. They are worlds apart from other CC troops, I don't think their lower manpower cost justifies such a difference (and keep in mind they have to pay munition on top). Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper Again one is weapon upgrade the other a call in unit. Still it is the same outcome, the only differnce is the way to get there = after initial purchase method you get a CC unit in both cases Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:44 PMVipper That is a commander problem and not really relevant to the PPsh upgrade. One of the two could be replaced with something else. Finally soemthing I can agree about. It makes no sense to have them next to each other in one commander. In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes6 Mar 2021, 14:26 PM Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 08:13 AMVipper Some abilities should have their CP checked but I have to disagree with the example. You are taking ability like the crate which is OP (and badly designed) and use it as benchmark for another ability that is fine. This lead to pure power creep. PPsh has actually been buffed relevantly recently (was CP3 and PPsh was weaker) and was quite good when it was buffed. Making PPsh CP 0 would be make it broken (and then people would ask to move SVT, G43, VSL... also in CP 0). USF, Ostheer and UKF all have 0 CP doctrinal Assault units which come with potent close combat weapons and with abilities like smoke or sprint. All of them have further upgrades to make them even more potent later on. For example Thompsons for UKF Assault Tommies. PPsH upgrade is doctrinal too, since it cost munition you a) can't just upgrade all cons right away b) even at 0 CP you can't do it right at the start c) it hampers your ability to use Oorah, molotov, At-grenade, lay mines, equip Penals with PTRS early on In addition the upgrade makes your Cons practically useless at midrange since the 3 PPsH have such a harsh damage drop off, so Cons get close quarter by upgrading. Last but not least it takes away the weapon slot, so you can't get to seven men. That are a lot of disadvantages. If anything you could remove AT-grenade once upgraded. Compared to the more potent assault units which does not have a muniton cost and more damage output at close quarters I see no problem. Unless you want to make them CP depended too. Hitting the battlefield at 2 CPs means you can have Shock troops at the same time at multiple commanders. In fact at Soviet shock army you have both abilities in one commander... In: Lobby
Thread: Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes5 Mar 2021, 23:16 PM Jump back to quoted post5 Mar 2021, 23:06 PMVipper With some not with all but it would take too long to explain. All beginnings are difficult... In: Lobby