Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 16:32 PMVipper

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In conclusion, if in your opinion Soviet need an CP 0 assault squad suggest that instead of asking to move the PPsh to CP 0. That would make both unit easier to balance.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 17:23 PMgeneral_gawain

Since I'm not motivated anymore atm to give an answer to all the small aspects you commented I'll focus on your conclusion since you gave one (although I disagree in all of them but the last and would have quite a few remarks).

About your conclusion:

No, I'm not of the opinion that Soviet needs a doctrinal 0 CP Assault troop, but neither USF, UKF or Ostheer really need one. Because of that all of them are doctrinal, for different openings with different commanders and versatile playstyle.

Yes, Imo the PPsH Cons upgrade is rather underwhelming at its timing at 2 CPs in comparison to the timing of other assault options at soviets themselves or other factions.

So either rework its timing, bundle it with another conscript upgrade or completely exchange for another commander ability. Replace it in Soviet Shock army for sure (since Schock army should heep Schock Troops).

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 17:27 PMVipper

The timing is in fine.

The ability is already bundled with another conscript ability which is "hit the dirt".

Once more if in argument breaks down to other faction have CP 0 assault your suggestion should be replace the upgrade with CP 0 assault infatry, it has already been done with IS.

Vet 3 PPsh conscripts are more cost efficient than Assault IS and Assault Grenadiers.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 02:37 AMgeneral_gawain

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Soviet: Defensive Tactics
This commander is not entirely bad, but it fills none of the soviet blank spots. Usually you go for a commander with elite troops, ML-20 or premium med / heavy tanks. With 4 of 5 abilities at 0-2 Cps and one at 12 CPs it leaves a huge gap in CP progression. I would suggest to swap M42-AT gun for a KV-1 or ML-20. Both would fit defensive thematic very well and would close the CP game in midgame without making commander op. In addition it would be an interesting option to add a heavy anti-tank mine like Ostheer Riegel or USF M20 mines. The Soviet had such mines too (TM-41/TM-44).
- swap M42-AT Gun with KV-1 or ML-20 commander ability
- add heavy tank mines for engineers with Advanced Fortifications (probably with additional T3 or T4 techlock)

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 06:04 AMZeroZeroNi

goliath on one of the commanders for ost(german mechanized/fenstung support)

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 09:25 AMKatitof

- no unit swapping between factions;

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 09:30 AMZeroZeroNi

but's it's not a unit. It's more like an ability.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 07:03 AMMMX

funny that you'd want to replace the one ability (m-42) that makes this commander a viable pick for me. defensive tactics is ideal for t1 openings since you get anything you'd want from t2, and in case of the dskh and hm-38, even in superior form compared to the stock options.
without the baby at gun you'd be forced to back-tech for a zis rather sooner than later, so imho one of the other mediocre commander slots (tank traps and those ap-mines no one ever builds) would be a much better candidate for an ability swap.

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:07 PMVipper

Strafe see to be a bit late and it could become closer to Ostheer strafe

Jump back to quoted post6 Mar 2021, 14:07 PMVipper

Loiter was actually buffed not nerfed and it is strong. It not advisable to leave soft target in the area where the place operate.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 11:31 AMredfox

Alright, gotya. However, the problem with the IL-2 single strafe then still remains, doesn't it? Even more so, as now the problem is not only reduced to one commander (Advanced Warfare) but now both ISU-commanders suffer from it as well. It´s the highest CP ability of those commanders and so it should have SOME usefullness other than being a waste-ammo-button.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 07:03 AMMMX

funny that you'd want to replace the one ability (m-42) that makes this commander a viable pick for me. defensive tactics is ideal for t1 openings since you get anything you'd want from t2, and in case of the dskh and hm-38, even in superior form compared to the stock options.
without the baby at gun you'd be forced to back-tech for a zis rather sooner than later, so imho one of the other mediocre commander slots (tank traps and those ap-mines no one ever builds) would be a much better candidate for an ability swap.

Jump back to quoted post7 Mar 2021, 02:37 AMgeneral_gawain

I want to make a proposition for five commanders. All five commanders are medicore for different reasons and could be good with some minor tweaking. The idea is to put in not more than two changes to make them worthwhile. One commander for each faction - just to be fair.

Soviet: Defensive Tactics

Though it would be thematic to replace the M-42 with a different (and more "defensive") unit/ability, the M42 is a strong unit for Soviet, and this is one of the abilities people pick the commander /for/.

Regarding giving Soviet a "Riegel" mine equivalent; This shouldn't be an "Engineer" buildable mine. Immobilisation mines are built only by vehicles currently, which I have to assume is intended to make their placement more "costly", and to make them less able to be spammed. You'd want to give this ability to the Soviet Halftrack, not to Combat Engineers, if it were to even be considered to be added at all.

Why was that interesting soviet barbed wire removed from this commander ages back, anyway? The one that acted like deep snow? Was it bugged somehow, or was it just really AIDS for some reason? Its a pretty interesting and unique gimmick.

I'd suggest toying with the idea of giving the commander a "Soviet" version of Hull Down... but for whatever reason Soviet already have that as a specific vehicle gimmick, rather than being an ability you could just give to CEs and apply to any vehicle.

Ostheer: Defensive Doctrine

Sure, though I much preferred Unit G17's suggestion of giving any FRP functionality that OST might get to a sd.kfz.261, rather than to a bunker or similar ability. No other faction has such an ability tied to a vehicle, and it would be pretty interesting.

OKW: Elite Armored Doctrine

I like the idea of providing Elite Armoured with more options in terms of "Armour" units, though it's a shame the Ostwind doesn't synergise at all with HEAT nor with the Panzer Commander upgrade. Still, the Ostwind provides something quite desirable to OKW, and it kind of makes more sense for it to be here, rather than in Scavenge Doctrine.

A command Panther with HEAT (Combined with other vehicles with HEAT, thanks to the Aura) feels like it might be rather too strong, though. I shouldn't want to see HEAT be nerfed, so I don't think it would be a good idea to add that unit here... and it's ostensibly unique to another commander anyway. It's a shame, as it would be thematic. If the Command Panther were changed to not provide an aura, and instead provide utility castables instead, then this would be more reasonable. The Command Panzer IV would be a better fit, it's less able to abuse HEAT than the command panther... but it would similarly want to be changed to have utility abilities rather than an aura (Which would impact a lot of other doctrines)

If a "command" unit might want to be considered for the Doctrine, I'd suggest giving the 223 this functionality, increasing the cost of that upgrade, and replacing the "lockdown" function from the 223 with the OSTheer Opel Blitz.


UKF: Commandos

Sounds reasonable? Commando Regiment is insanely munitions-heavy for some reason. I don't know enough about this commander and its use to comment with any real authority, however, so I'm afraid I don't have that much else to say.

Given that this is the "Commando" doctrine, perhaps there is some design space left to devise a new sort of "Commando" squad, so that this commander has multiple options? Not really sure what it would do though, and honestly I dont know if any squad that doesn't just act like the current Commando squad would feel like a "Commando"


USF: Recon Company

The bundled airdops should simply be divided into the ability to requisition Paras, and the ability to requisition the team weapons separately. All "bundles" should be changed in this way, as they're too limiting, and make you pay far too much if you're only actually wanting one of the units within the bundle (which is more often than not the case).

The Greyhound is thematic; It's a recon vehicle... it's just it's historically been a little difficult to balance. I don't think the M-10 or 76 are particularly fitting thematically in this commander, incidentally... and the M-10 is underused because it doesnt really have much of a niche.

If you were going to give additional recon elements to the commander, I'd suggest giving them to the Paras or the Pathfinders, rather than to Riflemen.