The balance is not made for teamgames, and it cannot be. It's simply too different of a gamemode compared to 1v1. Even 2v2 is already pushing it. 4v4 and 3v3 are sandbox gamemodes designed for shits and giggles.
This means that this is just a Raktenwerfer clone with the worst characteristics. Does not make sense. Stielgranate 41 was used because it is cool, but because we need the maximum amount of anything that fired at the enemy.
The Stielgranate was used because it turned the tiny 37mm into a formidable weapon that was capable of penetrating and destroying any tank, be it Allied or Axis, at all ranges.
People underestimate HEAT weaponry. When the Germans introduced their 7.5cm HEAT shells, the short 7.5cm became able to penetrate every tank on the planet, and that was in 1940.
Seriously? Uhhh, because Ost unlocks snares, weapon upgrades, AND grenades in their tech for "free". YOU said Osts teching is more prohibitive, if you want to accurately compare costs, you need to include EQUIVALENT sidetechs. Nobody gets a free repair station, so thats far from equivalent
To unlock the same things, soviets need to spend more fuel. It is 100% false to say Osts teching is more prohibitive. Its flat out wrong.
Here's a handy guide for figuring out if something is free:
Do you pay for it? >> Yes >> It's not free
V
V
No >> It's free
Are you several patches behind? Ostheers tech costs were fixed ages ago. And what faction are you comparing them too? If its the soviets, its not true. If you add up all the Soviet techs (including mollys and at nades) it costs more than Ost tech.
If your comparing it to western factions, then Ostheer has an extra tier of vehicles that they dont have. Yeah, you have to spend more fuel to unlock more units.
Its not 100% up to date, but if you cross-reference with the patchnotes, you'll have all the info you need
Since when do people count side tech into tech equations? Do we count OKW Medtruck + Medics, Mechanized + Repair engineers and then FlakHQ + Panther prize for the Panther as well? Big, big think.
I understand your point, but Ostheer rushing for their only "counter" to Churchill will have nothing else, no Pgrens, no light vehicles, no nothing.
A Panther's a hard counter. It always wins that fight.
Soft counters are stuff like blowing up a T-70 with panzerfausts.
A "hard counter" is generally seen as something that will quickly and with little chances of failure dispose of a unit. M20 is a hard counter to Kubel, for example. T-70 will always win vs Luchs, but it's not a Hard counter, since the Luchs has enough time to retreat.
An SU-85 is not a hard counter to a King Tiger, for example.
A Panther doesn't need to ignore the Jackson, Firefly and the SU-85. Since its HP buff, it can just outright kill them. It's a 50 range, heavily armoured tank destroyer that can take six hits.
The Churchill may take its dear sweet time exploding when under Panther bombardment, but it's not going to win that fight unless you're up against a player who advances with the Reverse key.
Aha, so I suppose the SU-85 requires just as many shots as a Firefly, in your calculation?
It's also a 185 fuel tank destroyer, which is more than any of these vehicles. The difference between a Jackson and a Panther is almost the difference between a Panther and an IS 2(if you just conveniently ignore tech costs)
I knew that there's not going to be a single rebuttal directed at the core argument. That a tank destroyer more expensive than the unit it's supposed to counter fails at countering it
Can anyone imagine the ass blast the forum would erupt into if a Panther could just ignore an SU-85 or a Jackson? What about a Firefly? The tears generated on the forum would be enough to terraform Mars. Holy shit, imagine a vetted SU 85 bouncing of the rear of a P4. Imagine it bouncing on a Panther even, or a KT. It would be a tornado of tears.
But this actually a bad example, because of course a Panther is more expensive than Firefly, Jackson and SU-85. Even much more so for Wehrmacht, because tech for Wehrmacht is much, MUCH more prohibitive than for other factions.
I have no idea about unit values since all related sites are down, and I have no interest in diving in game files. But I think the general direction of introducing units as easy to use as the Churchill is bad for the game.
The very notion of high rear armour values was early on in COHs life cycle recognized as a fundamental no-no. Together with things such as high survivability units+out of jail free cards, or spammable, potent units with both AT and AI, or also units with AT weapons AND snares.
The Panther is not only a super expensive T4 tank destroyer, it also takes more than a minute of shooting to destroy an afk Churchill(provided it won't miss or bounce, which it will).
All that while being several orders of magnitude more of an investment. The Stug and JPIV, both dedicated, turretless tank destroyers, have so little penetration that a churchill could definitely just comfortably ignore them. Even when shooting the Churchill from behind, they'd still bounce a lot of shots, regardless of veterancy.
Its pretty clear axis, especially Wehr is handicapped against high hp high armor allies heavies. It is akin to making allies td to 50 range/or no pen vet/ap rounds. Imagine playing with this kind of td stats.
The jadpanzer while have the range, its pen is bad, still more worthy than a stug though
This is the whole core of the problem. While the allied factions have no problems with high armour/health units, the axis ones do not have the same capabilities, because they face higher armour units while at the same time having lower pen capabilities on their TDs themselves.
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