M36 Jackson

Glide shot is technique used to avoid moving penalty, it result in slower moving speed and increases micro. It is not "bad or crippling" else people would not used it.

Do you have a similar technique to increase Pen shot for the Sherman? No you don't. So I don't know what you're talking about here, there is a technique usable by the vast majority of players for all factions that strongly reduce the penalty of moving accuracy. It is not like Sherman had 100% moving accuracy so you also need to stop before firing with a sherman cuz 65% is not 100%.

Go ahead and count all that zero vet pen med tanks get.

if u see what i quoted i mentioned rfeoad too

if u see what i quoted i mentioned rfeoad too

And what has reload to do with anything?

Do you have a similar technique to increase Pen shot for the Sherman? No you don't. So I don't know what you're talking about here, there is a technique usable by the vast majority of players for all factions that strongly reduce the penalty of moving accuracy. It is not like Sherman had 100% moving accuracy so you also need to stop before firing with a sherman cuz 65% is not 100%.

Moving accuracy penalty for Sherman is 75% not 65%.

Claiming that the better moving accuracy does not give an advantage is simply false.

The PzIV Sherman relationship simply reflect their price difference. Actually according to Katitof:
Sherman is mot efficient medium tank.

Once more USF can deal with PzIV even without making a single M36 or even the M36 did not make the PzIV obsolete.

Do you have a similar technique to increase Pen shot for the Sherman?

Flank.

And what has reload to do with anything?

everyone get something with vet, we are talking stock, or u know there is toons of thing to count for

Moving accuracy is literally no issue if you're skilled enough and can count in your head to 5 or 6.

US has so much acc. they don't have to think about stop before shoot. Maybe you understand it? It is simply not balanced, because no-brainer.


Back to the Scott (M8A1) thing. It has WAY too much pen. It shouldn't be able to pen a Tiger. But it can. It is less damage, but its range and speed is enough to make it OP.

Back to the Scott (M8A1) thing. It has WAY too much pen. It shouldn't be able to pen a Tiger. But it can. It is less damage, but its range and speed is enough to make it OP.

What does the M8 Scott have to do with the Jackson?

https://youtu.be/lhzZ4rL5wjQ

What do you guys think about this game?
Double jackson double firefly shut down triple panthers without a sweat. We can talk all day of panther armor and hp, but vetted alllies td simply scale way better and ignore everything. Look at the number of shots panthers suffered out of counter range.

I played tons of 2v2, and allies td makes late game way too easy.

We can also say double Jackson should shutdown a panther, but getting double Jackson is easy. Look at the amount of usf army that was built. So many easy eights, so many Scott's, double firefly and Churchill's.

Allies popcap advantage was ok in the past since wehr single unit was stronger to compensate. But not now. It seems the balance team was looking too narrowly at balancing at unit level, but left out total army size.

Anyway, we can type as much, but do we know the balance team are still taking in suggestions?

The last change to crew repair made them better, auto crew repair!

It has been frustrating playing Wehr 2v2 in past year. You can do so much, but late game we just dont have the touch to close the game or hold off the Allies push. There is no comeback no scaling.

Coh used to be about units tiering upwards, now it felt like the most expensive unit dont have the clear advantage for Axis faction at least. There is no hard counter on Wehr side imo, like what you do against Scott and Jackson?

It just felt all the balancing is giving Allies the cake and letting them eat it. Its not just a buff here-here, but buff counter-nerf-nerf.

Well I hate to be that guy, but some discussions are either way offset or out of focus.

To put simply a tier list of tanks. (If I'm missing one I will Add it later)

-LV scout cars (dodge,kubel,m3a1,uc,221)
-LV armored cars (aec,puma,222,greyhound)
-LV tanks (stuart,t70,pz2,valentine)
-Medium tanks (Sherman,t34, pz4, cromwell)
-Medium TDs (stug, su76, jp4, t34-85, e8,m10)
-Heavy tanks (kv1,kv2,brumb,panther,comet,Pershing, tiger)
-Heavy TDs (firefly,su85, M36)
-Super Heavy Tanks (tiger2, is2, churchill, sturmtiger)
-Super Heavy TDs (isu152, elephant, jagtiger)

It's somewhat simplified but it lays out an important logic.
Same tier units have some sort of fight where cost effective or premium unit win. A tier above dominates the tier below, it also controls to some extent all the tiers below, but less efficiently, mostly because of RoF or target size.
Some exceptions occur, and that's fine because that gives diversity of strategies and usually are cost handicapped

If we can agree with this layout, painters are to be countered by m36, wich is fine, but also are by ffs and su85. On latest two cases mobility is an issue that Panthers exploit, so are Sherman's able to flank stugs. That's why a panther is good, but that cannot justify for m36 to simply over perform. In order to keep tiers able to force some non linear gameplay, Panthers have to deal with ffs but not with m36, therefore we can nerf m36 just enough to dominate Panthers but not so much other tanks in the spectrum.

Before anyone says, yes, WFA allied have no super heavy TDs but that's not the end of the world since those lack serious AI power, which both factions have high mainline infantry standards. No one has the best tool to win, just some tool to dominate the same tiers or the ones below.

What does the M8 Scott have to do with the Jackson?

e.g. the only good counter versus Jackson is PaK40. Scott is able to 2shot PaK40, even on the move. In PaK killing it is like a Brummbär with untouchable range.

That is also one important factor why Jackson is so good, it isn't possible to get a real non-doc counter. Making Scott like it is now and make it a commander unit OR nerf it.

https://youtu.be/lhzZ4rL5wjQ

Sadly, that is normal, the accuracy and range makes them an ideal no-brain unit. Simply keep it moving.

Give it same accuracy like Panther, pearcing shot same accuracy like OKW heat.
Scott needs a overwork too.

-> Also Firefly needs some accuracy changes. Also the UK PaK overperforms, too much pen. (same as PaK40)

US has so much acc. they don't have to think about stop before shoot. Maybe you understand it? It is simply not balanced, because no-brainer.

USF was MADE AND BALANCED around having high mobility, including and especially their ARMOR.
Maybe you understand it now?

Back to the Scott (M8A1) thing. It has WAY too much pen. It shouldn't be able to pen a Tiger. But it can. It is less damage, but its range and speed is enough to make it OP.

Did you knew that 222 can penetrate IS-2 and King Tiger front armor?
Did you knew that HMG42 with incendiary rounds can penetrate all allied stock med tanks from the front?
Just because it can do some tiny fraction of damage doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it - that's how the game works.

everyone get something with vet, we are talking stock, or u know there is toons of thing to count for

Umm.... you DO realize that reload vet of all allied stock meds is still much inferior vet to reload+armor of ost P4?
Their scaling is similar, T34 gets 10% more reload then P4, but P4 gets 30% more armor.
You can include reload, but vet2 onwards engagements are completely one sided in favor of P4 (or one sided by default against okw p4).

USF was MADE AND BALANCED around having high mobility, including and especially their ARMOR.
Maybe you understand it now?



Did you knew that 222 can penetrate IS-2 and King Tiger front armor?
Did you knew that HMG42 with incendiary rounds can penetrate all allied stock med tanks from the front?
Just because it can do some tiny fraction of damage doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it - that's how the game works.

1. Panther is designed to be a mobile hunter but has bad accuracy, maybe you understand it now? Jackson will still be more mobile, but player have to count the sec. for micro.

2. Your examples do all WAY less damage and can't outrange. That is how the game works.


You simply don't get it? Do you know what your problem is? You should start playing the game.

The design and balance of every faction and virtually every unit in this game has drifted. The Jackson is an entirely different unit from what it was originally.

1. Panther is designed to be a mobile hunter but has bad accuracy, maybe you understand it now? Jackson will still be more mobile, but player have to count the sec. for micro.

It is mobile.
Its not meant to be accurate when on the move.
If it makes you happy, reduce moving accuracy of jackson, it doesn't need it anyway as when it moves, its usually to run or reposition.

2. Your examples do all WAY less damage and can't outrange. That is how the game works.

And if scott is reliably damaging your tigers, perhaps you shouldn't sit in same spot for 5 minutes while something is shooting at it?
Stop trying to stir a storm in a glass of water.

You simply don't get it? Do you know what your problem is? You should start playing the game.

Do you know what your problem is?
Playing the game, but never improving anything and not having a slightest clue about any stats.
You are complaining a MORTAR is damaging your tank.
Newsflash sunshine:
Scott has 40 penetration, just like any other mortar in the game.

Yes USF was made for mobile and accuracy. But not with jackson buff and corresponding panther nerf.

So Usf now have a powerful Td that scales very well with late game and still retains its mobile and accuracy and self repairs and army size?

You see the problem. On one side, we say Wehr was design for late game and armor, but conveniently dropped just because people complained. Yet you want others to accept Usf design should remain together with buff and cheese units?

https://youtu.be/lhzZ4rL5wjQ

What do you guys think about this game?
Double jackson double firefly shut down triple panthers without a sweat. We can talk all day of panther armor and hp, but vetted alllies td simply scale way better and ignore everything. Look at the number of shots panthers suffered out of counter range.

Why do you have the need to keep lying about casted games, when everyone can take some time to see that what you are saying is false ?

Gonna skip the early-mid game to jump straight to those late game comps which includes the Panthers and putting a timestamp and analysis.

First of all: you can't expect to win a high level ranked game when it's clear as day that one of the 4 players is not playing up to it's level. Floating +600/700 munition, throwing out vetted keys units and incapable of adapting the army comp to the opponent is a shortcut to failure.


30': they are basically dead even. Similar popcaps and army compositions
OH: Pak, Brum, PV, PW, PG Shreck
UKF: Churchill, FF, LM, RE Piats
OKW: Command PV, 2x Stuka, 2x Rak
USF: 2x E8, Jackson, Scott, AT gun

Besides the lower performance in the late game on the OKW player (you won't see his munition drop from 600 and close to hit 800 at times), the key factor where the combined pushes from the allies. You will see the usual 1v1 on each side but Brosras/Capitano were faster on doing 2v1 assist which lead to constantly sniping enemy vetted units.


33': OH PV and Brum are damaged from fighting UKF FF + Churchill and Piats. Piats keep pushing and then USF with 2x E8 (1xvet3)+ Jack, followed behind by Churchill, forces retreat on PV and kills vet 2 Brum. PG kills Jackson. OKW arrives late, when they are already retreating.

37'/39': these are the OKW Cmd PV over-extentions when poking frontally against a 2xFF + Jackson and other tank walls.
He is also blobbing Volks but not spending his munitions on lava or frag nades and been forced to retreat by single IS throwing a nade to them.

40': first big throw, both sides. While not been punished on the spot, he sends his damaged Cmd PV forward (supporting units are not there yet like the rak), escapes due to sheer Blitz luck and they manage to kill a vet 0 E8. USF basically forced to seconds later base dive the OKW base to finish the vet 2 Cmd PV losing another E8 on the process.
Cost efficient wise, point towards Axis. Vet/late game comp wise, the vet on the command PV is more important. USF had the resources banked as well. He maintains his vet 3 E8 while having 2x Jackson while OKW stays with 2x Stuka.


44: check where each armies are when the Churchill (vet2) goes for the MG. Overextention which leds to it's death (by 2 chasing PV) but look how each team reacted. White Phosphorous to block PG/Grens, 2x Jackson and 2 FF come hot for the kill and finishes the OH PV. Kinda avg/bad trade cause OH doesn't have as much resource banked. PV could had avoid their death if he used the smoke bomb drop.

The OKW Cmd PV was chasing a Scott to the enemy base. Proceeds to attack the vet3 E8 while having cloaked raks behind him. Kills it but dies because behind the E8 there are 2 Jacksons, a FF and 2 Scotts which forces the retreat on the Raks. At some point he also lost one of his Stukas.

OH vet 3 PV moves after the OKW PV dies, but get's pushed out by vet 3 FF and the other FF which didn't chase down OKW Cmd PV.

47: PV vet3 vs Churchill head on. 2 vet 2/3 FF appear. Forces retreat. Brum appears, forced to retreat.
Meanwhile OKW MG, 3 Volks, 2 raks gets punished by mass retreat from 2 Scott and major arty on retreat path.

48: OKW newly Cmd PV rushes towards a Scott while his whole army is on base. Proceeds to get stomp by double Jackson (1x vet3).

From this points onward, both Axis players make a huge mistake. Each of them recrews 3 MGs for a total of 6 of them. USF army is basically tanks and Scotts (1 Rifle, 1 LT, 1 RET, 1 Major).

OH adapts correctly at least by going 3x PG shrecks.

54': you can see the power of cloaked PGs rekting the vet 3 FF. They can do so cause there's nothing to punish them.
Later they also kill a Scott.

57: the game was even again by the heavy lifting of OH.
OKW CmD PV chases and kills a Scott. He meets a triple Jackson wall (vet1/2/3). Jacksons chases. The fight is Cmd PV, PV, 2 cloaked raks vs 3x Jackson, Scott (MVP) and LT. Scott smokes the raks, nullifying them. Jackson kills Cmd PV (abandon), losing vet 2 on process. Later the other 2 Jacks kills the other PV.
If he had at least 1 of his 3 Volks, another would had been the result.

Game over. PG gets punished later by blobbing/assaulting a Jackson while they are getting hit by Bar Rifle, vehicle crew, close range Scott and E8. No munition to rebuild.

Thanks for your analysis.

however imo, the problem is shown again. Allies late game is too cost effective in unit price, vet bonus and popcap limited.

If you see the match, a lot of time both sides are near 90+ popcap, but the allies unit composition is superior.

The Okw player could have got a Jp4 instead of 2 rak, i dont think anything else can be done differently. The 2 stuka arty is needed, because Axis cant compete late game infantry.

A lot of Axis tanks were damaged/lost thanks to the range and bonus of FF and Jackson. Simply no response possible as they shutdown large area. The Scott is the icing with the arty attack. The only hope was PG blob. Sadly PG blob is struggle against Brit Eng blob in utility(no repair) and can be stopped easier thanks to allies accurate arty or area denial as you seen.

Basically, Axis in late tanks vs tanks duel, will come out inferior always, matters like crew repair, Engineer piats, all adds up.
Allies TD are now a hard counter against Axis tank, with very little response. Same with Arty units like Scott.

This is same problem i faced in 2v2. This is frustration that the live game balances is causing.