Profile of sinthe

Jump back to quoted post18 Jul 2016, 04:13 AMSvanh

I haven't checked it recently but don't the Sherman's AP shells have the same penetration profile as the Cromwell?


Penetration values don't tell the whole story.

The Ostheer Panzer IV has 180 frontal armour to the Cromwell, Sherman, and T-34/76's 160. The Cromwell, for example, has the same chance to penetrate a Panzer IV as the Panzer IV has to penetrate a Cromwell at point-blank range (75%) but the Panzer IV has a slightly higher fire rate so it is expected to win head-on fights. At any other range, the Panzer IV has a higher chance to penetrate the Cromwell than vice versa (M 68.75% v. 66.66%, F 62.5% v. 58.33%).
The T-34/76 was fairly widely considered a poor tank before the MG buff despite its low fuel cost because the penetration fall-off meant it was extremely unreliable at any range but point-blank (and it couldn't reliably kill infantry).

The problem with major buffs to the penetration of any medium tank is that they devalue both more expensive and heavier-armoured units, and tank destroyers. For all the issues players have with the Tiger's "low" frontal armour, your average medium tank has less than a 50% chance to penetrate it.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2016, 21:02 PMMr.Smith

For instance:
Panzer IV:
120 - 110 - 100 (Near - Mid - Far)

Sherman
140 - 120 - 100

Cromwell
135 - 120 - 105

T-34/76
120 - 100 -80

T-34/85
160 - 140 - 120

Puma
160 - 120 - 80

What this means is that even though P4 penetration looks pretty low compared to the Sherman, they become equal at max-range.

Jump back to quoted post16 Jul 2016, 02:34 AMeasierwithaturret

I never said the Stug was a blob counter, I said the ostwind should get a buff to help counter blobs, thus better enabling the stug to play its part in OH's AT arsenal.

Jump back to quoted post16 Jul 2016, 02:34 AMeasierwithaturret

It's fine that OH has to make do with pak, fausts, 222 and other soft AT in the early-mid game. You can't have hard counters to light tanks available before the light tanks themselves, otherwise that would invalidate the whole mid game. It's also just straight up wrong to say that allies have better quality AT. Greater quantity, better value perhaps. The big problem with axis armour right now is not the vehicles themselves, it's that infantry can't support them properly under the barrage of indirect and blobs.

Jump back to quoted post16 Jul 2016, 02:34 AMeasierwithaturret

I feel like the whole OH discourse is getting very confused with mutliple issues being debated across numerous threads, so I'm done with it for now. All I'll say is we as a community need to move away from simplistic comparisions between similar units and instead take a more holistic approach that acknowledges the numerous components to any balance problem.

Jump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 18:24 PMVuther

If it was about as good why didn't the Germans make 5 million more of them? (not a serious response)

Jump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 17:35 PMKatitof

@Grittle
Guard PTRS yes, con PTRS shoots blanks.