What if instead of shifting the M20 and AT gun into T0 USF tech was just designed to be similar to PE tech?
What I mean by this is that T1 and T2 would both be buildable from the start of the game for relatively cheap (100-150MP/10-20FU) but the officer and M15/Stuart in those tiers would be initially locked. A USF player would have to spend additional MP and FU (200MP/30-40FU) to purchase the officer which would then unlock the M15/Stuart. T3 couldn't be upgraded untill a T1 or T2 officer is purchased and if relic wanted to adjust the arrival time of the sherman or jackson a similar tier/officer unlock scheme could be applied to T3 as well.
If you wanted to go further the pack howie could be replaced by a mortar in T2 and then shifted into T3 to act as a mobile barrage howitzer (no autoattack) in order to provide USF a rocket artillary equivilent late game.
The result of this change would be that USF would have early access to a MG/ATG/Mortar/M20 and could afford to have access to both tiers but would only be able to realistically choose one officer. The separation of officer and tier tech would also provide more levers for controlling unit/tier timing.
There could also be a T0 research upgrade called "Mechanized Vehicle Upgrade" or something that allows you to buy light vehicles.
So 20 fuel LT and 20 fuel Captain, the above upgrade would be 30 fuel. I like it, early officers would help map presence.
Instead of swapping pack howitzer with mortar, what if the M8 Scott and the Pack Howitzer switched places? |
I don't understand your masochistic argument. By your own account, how can the playing field be leveled, yet either one's opponent must "make a blunder", or one must play like a god and snuff out a game within the first quarter of an hour... somehow... which still as I think Symbiosis demonstrated, is not exactly a guarantee of victory: or accept agonizing, soul crushing defeat.
Every other faction, even the UKF at the moment, have some advantage, some edge, or unique facet to their design. The USF are in my opinion entirely toothless at every stage and facet of the game.
One thing I will say about the USF is the design of the faction makes them the best at snowballing a very slight advantage into a huge one: free officers, cheap teching, very early scalable light vehicles, weapon racks, high effectiveness of USF units chasing down repositioning units, and the fact that all vehicles except Jackson have some kind of get out of jail free card to further encourage super aggressive play.
If we are only talking about straight buffing the faction with no regards to flavor, I think giving USF a T0 Sniper/Kubel counter with high opportunity cost (WC51) and swapping smoke with AT rifle nades are the only needed changes.
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USF is in a good spot if you have good micro but is very, very stale because the majority of your army (riflemen) expire past the 15 minute mark. |
The problem is you can't afford a PIV and a StuG III, the PIV locks you into having a unit putzing around that doesn't scale well when facing off against heavies/advanced tanks like the ISU/IS2/Churchill variants/Comet/Easy Eight/T34/85 because it's pen is sub par for what your paying for.
Basically a lot of the issue lay in Ostheer T3 being very expensive, and the USF 75mm low velocity Sherman having the exact same pen for lower cost on it's AP shells with the added bonus of the ability to switch to HE shells that are great for wiping low model count Ostheer squads right off the map.
The solution lay in two things; either making the PIV better in pen or something else or lowering it's cost. It was suggested in the other thread putting the Ost one at 115 and OKW at 125.
But no other army in the game has to make this sacrifice. Conscripts get AT nades, molotovs, better veterancy, and doctrinally they get an AI upgrade. USF can put basically anything on it's mainline infantry (and doctrinally add the ability to put down Schu mines). Brits can also put any variety of upgrades they want on their mainline infantry as well.
Simply put, Volks are the only basic infantry in the game with neither a doctrinal upgrade or a selection of upgrades period. This of course isn't getting into the fact Volks scaling got a huge kick in the nuts with the Conscript and Rifle scaling buffs.
But no other army in the game has vet 5 and the ability to put base buildings on the map.
Volks do need some minor nondoctrinal anti-infantry upgrade, but your argument justifying it is flawed. |
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Falls should be cheaper and come with G41s that have a profile similar to M1 Garand. Then buff FG42 by a lot and make it muni upgrade. |
I had not the LT, only captain.
You bleed like a pig with more than 5 rifle + captain
Or more than 6 infantery for soviet and ostheer.
When i was Top 1 in ladders 1v1 :
5 gren + 1MG 42 + HT-pzgren 3cp stugE doc
4 conscripts + 2 guards upgrade 75 muni at start + 1 M3
5-6 Infantery + 2 MG34 as OKW
3 RIFLE 1 LT 2 RE and 1 Para for USF if i played vs Okw
5 rifle and captain vs Ostheer.
But if you have a big Reserv of Manpower, you can make more infantery units
Don't tech fast or bleed mp on Medic in early game.
With More Infantery units you take the battlefield.
As Ostheer, you can give Health for 25 muni at vet 1.
Thanks, pretty much what I was looking for+above. It sucks that you couldn't be in OCF tourney, you probably would own most players. |
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Watching USF replays of Quentin I'm noticing he loves building 5 riflemen and slowly taking the map with the insane firepower 5 rifles have. I watched a game vs Angriefen (not a very good player but not bad at all) where Quentin had 5 rifles, LT, CPT, pack howitzer, and RE...with 800 Manpower in the bank.
So: how do you go 5 to 6 riflemen without bleeding like a pig, or wiping squads in early engagements? |
While I can appreciate this end goal, I don't agree with the changes you've detailed.
Can you elaborate? I'm receptive to any ideas you may have. |
I like the idea in principle.
What if in addition to the proposed changes that REs had their weapon slots reduced to 1 as well? That would reduce their effectiveness in spamming them with weapon racks but give them additional baseline combat utility to compensate.
This would be really good. Adding to OP. |
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Falls could be buffed. Paras are fine. |
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