ISG should lose suppression, Pack Howie should retain it because it costs more. Both should have target tables making them more effective against static weapons.
ISG could use smoke as well. |
I agree, teching for Ost and USF should encourage more strategies and diversity, it's not balance but longevity and fun.
Also typo in the above post Carlos-you would unlock Faust had BP1, not 2. |
It's clear that OKW gets AI through other units-this is why most players use JLI and Panzerfusilier as their basic line infantry in 1 vs 1 games.
Don't get it twisted people-I want Volks to transition from cannon fodder to cannon fodder that actually does damage. MP44/SMGs/whatever are the best means of accomplishing this. |
Minus sniper cloak change, I like this. +1 |
Zyllen your wrong bro. USF has mp bleed because rifles aren't really long range troops and their expensive to maintain.
OKW doesn't have MP bleed because their worthwhile callin/Ober troops are all great long range fighters, and Volks are dirt cheap. |
You say Sturms are only for repairing late-game, but why not attacking AND repairing? USF makes it work with REs. Goodness knows I've been making it work if I treat them like squishy shock troops w/o smoke nades. And if you don't have enough dedicated sturms for reps, just make more! You agree that OKW has manpower float, right?
OKW has mp float because Kubel opening, Volks are dirt cheap, and JLI, Pfusies, and Obers are all absurdly cost efficient...at range.
Use Sturms as your basic infantry and you'll discover that the float is gone |
I don't know about that, that sounds like one of those 'tank myths' in itself. I find it hard to believe that we'd knowingly send hordes of Shermans (poorly armed for tank combat) into battle with no dedicated anti-tank support, and not even change our strategies until early 1945 when they got wrecked due to lack of anti-tank ability / support. Tank Destroyer doctrine was working good enough for the Army up until then, I doubt it was as restrictive and reckless as you claim.
If you want to argue "realism" then you're doing it wrong, because 75mm Tanks were not up-gunned to 76mm or Jumbo, these were built that way in the factory and sent to Europe. Only the Jumbo could upgrade from a 75mm to a 76mm, because the original design called for 76mm guns and thus the turret was designed for them.
Combined with superior numbers, logistics, and recon Shermans in Armor Divisions did a fine job engaging enemy armor outside of long engagement ranges.
The battle of Arracourt is a textbook example of tactics and recon triumphing over superior hardware. IMO if you want some good reading try http://www.amazon.com/Tank-Tactics-Normandy-Lorraine-Stackpole/dp/0811735591. Author served in WWII if I'm not mistaken, and the entire book is very educational. |
However; that snowball's critical mass is... never really too too threatening. I would argue during the days of Shock Rifle, the Soviets did it better with the IS2, maybe even now to a certain degree with Su76 walls. Sticking within that context, the way to beat USF as Ost was to hang on to dear life, and pray you sustained enough VPs for your opponents USF snowball to hit your proverbial Evergreen tree (Tiger tank + PaK wall) If it really was a true, scalable advantage, those delaying strategies would have failed to the overwhelming tide of cheeseburgers and thousands of rounds of freedom/minute.
I'll further disagree on the point of the light vehicles. They don't scale all that entirely well in the slightest. If anything, with the exception of the M20 as a mine layer, they have 0 equity other than their immediate impact when they hit the field. Every second that passes they become more and more antiquated by the raketen, PaK, or in some cases the 251/2, Puma et. all.
The M15 hasn't really got a joker, regarding survivability, and I would argue that the HP pools are so low, the opportunity to utilize such a joker, like Sherman smoke, isn't exactly a saving grace. The change for the M15 shooting forward is a good start, perhaps given more HP, much like the Ost sniper, they could pose more of a threat against an entrenched player, with the ability to tank more than a faust + PaK round.
Cheap teching certainly is not the case regarding the Major. At 170-90 fuel for... for argument sake, Ost T3, with other opportunity costs such as healing and the vaunted weapon racks, one is either on par, or actually behind in the tech race.
I say... and I curse myself in doing so, so I do so quietly... take inspiration from PE design and make vehicles in quantity an option to use as frontline units. IE an M20/M8 w.e, give them the combat ability and dps/hp+armor survivability of at least a rifle squad, if not more, for the more specialized and or powerful/more expensive units M15, Stuart. So that we may choose, if we want, to utilize vehicles either as we do now, as essentially mobile support and harassment or as a more monochromatic mechanized army. I think some of the proposed additions of support weapons make sense as well, but I think it should be introduced much like the WSC vs. Barracks in CoH1, The choice needs to be made and carry its own set of unique risks and rewards. A commander should be forced, early on, to either mechanize or play with foot infantry, and be given opportunities in the later stages to hybridize, and then, truly create a snowball of a force, as once one has effectively "tech swapped" it would be very difficult to field enough of a counter to deal with each attacking threat the USF could throw at an opponent.
Omega Warrior has a thread focusing on reworking USF tech to work like the PE.
Anyway I agree for the most part with what your saying; making both officers 25 fuel each and making T0 research able to get light vehicles, and tank research at Major for say 50 fuel would help a lot.
Also swapping Pack Howie with M8 Scott, making M20 cheaper, and buffing garbage commander units. Without touching unit stats USF has suddenly gotten way more versatile and unpredictable. |
There also is a weird way in how OKW vet is laid out were some units don't get any offensive buffs till they hit a very high level of vet like Fallsch (only get better at killing at Vet 4) or to a lesser extent JLI and the MG34 (only get better at killing starting at Vet 3).
Then you have another form of that were you have entire levels taken up with useless crap like Med kits, concussion nades, and sprint (this doesn't mean Fuss don't scale well I just think it looks and feels silly and encourages bad play, also the Sprint only really makes you 1 speed faster so eh).
If OKW's entire thing is supposed to be far superior Vet then it needs to actually have far superior vet, because right now nothing about the faction scales nearly as well because on later vehicles the game doesn't last long enough for an impact and the requirements are stupidly high (there's also the whole thing with KT vet being atrocious but w/e).
A solution to this is just rip out vet 5 and cram all the levels in to 3 so you have more reliable scaling over the normal course of a match or just put more stuff in period.
Or standardize Veterancy across every unit for OKW; vet 1 would be ability/buff, 2-3 standard vet, 4 would have to be healing for infantry, and sprint, vet 5 would be mega OP status-maybe all vet 5 units could get a passive weapon upgrade like G41s for Obers, MP44 Volks, and so on. Just brainstorming.
I like your idea better and I think vet 4-5 is a stupid gimmick too-but Relics advertised it as a key OKW "feature", so it's safe to assume that if change is coming, it'll be a refinement and not a rework. |
Yeah most people don't realize that if the sole scalability of a unit belonging to an elite, infantry focused army is to be cannon fodder and AT, that unit sucks.
Buffing vet 4 and 5 are obvious solutions, however it still doesn't solve okws weakness fighting in up close areas, nor their huge MP float bonus which encourages spamming as opposed to tactical play. No other faction has elite and line infantry overlap as much. |