Profile of nee

Thread too long ... why is everyone talking about changing FRP?

Because despite not being related to EFA design it's being changed in this mod, and proposed to Relic so it goes live.

You know, like Congress slipping proposals underneath other bills.

I don't mind if it had cooldown or munitions cost, either. From micromanagement standpoint that puts a large burden on a player that tries to rely entirely on infantry blobbing. But like I said, this depends greatly on which faction's FRP being discussed.

Currently FRP give USF, UKF and OKW an unfair advantage over ostheer and the soviets.

On the offensive it allows for insane presure and lower the impact of machineguns and overall better unit management.

On defense it provides a strong staying power and allow indirect fire weapons to survive counterbattery fire.

Thing is, it is different for every faction. Allied factions requiere unit combos: Mayor+ambulance and FRP+upgraded Tommies
OKW can access to the FRP, a reinforcement point and healing in the same package.

I've heard balancing its also giving new options to players but FRP counterdicts some of the basic principles of CoH, as a game that rewards unit preservation, superior micro and better tactics

If basic principle of CoH is no forward retreat then it was ditched since 2014. A lot of changes to the factions were made since then and they all accommodated FRP; if anything forward retreat IS a basic principle of COH and people just don't like it when they are at the receiving end when playing as Russians.

It doesn't so much give an unfair advantage over EFA, since larger squads at T0 allow that from start to finish, it simply magnifies the problem by letting said larger, stronger and more versatile squads run back and forth between a point for faster reinforcement and travel time (ignoring, conveniently, the manpower cost that which is unchanged); it actually doesn't solve it and it's apparent once you actually play this mod in a large game. People just want to be vengeful against blobbing, not getting rid of it altogether.

UKF is the only one that is solid on defence alongside FRP due to emplacements and the only faction to have it with T0 HMG, but it's cost and playstyle pretty much has players ignoring UKF's FRP situation.

wehrmacht and soviet can use Halftrack as retreat point, but it should be doc or non-doc ?

Should be non-doctrinal, but with the tech, fuel and micromanagement cost I think it makes up for it. 30 fuel to produce an FRP rather than tanks is going to cost you some tech time, especially if you follow it up with another 30 fuel for a reinforcement plus FRP combo and effectively rely on infantry for much more of the game.

Which leads me to think that OKW's FRP should probably cost fuel or munitions as well to give more opportunity cost. Currently FRP is JUST a manpower cost of like a single infantry squad or ISG. If it also cost tech or upgrade/ ability resources, then that already lessens the impact of blobbing since less time for T4 truck and less resources to use abilities and upgrade.

Frp promotes bad play (just assault, if gone Bad just retreat and be on the assault 20sec later again).
Remove it or build a doctrine solely around it.

Disagree due to aformentioned points made, and they made not one but THREE distinct factions around it.

Ost:
-Add it as un bunker upgrade (same timing as US major ) using the same upgrade button : can't be on the same bunker as healing or reinforcement.

Sov:
-Add it as an M4 halftrack's upgrade (same timing as US major).
-Make the base medic mobile so they can go to the front.
OKW:
-Add it as an infra-red halftrack's upgrade (same timing as US major).
-Add the healing box supply drop from it. (remove it from pio)
US:
Add it as an ambulance's upgrade (same timing/cost as it was with the major).
Remove it from major.

I thought about Ostheer bunker as FRP before but it would either look weird due to four upgrades for a bunker (UI will have the fourth one a second row); and combining it with an upgrade would make it a bit powerful especially on smaller maps.
It could of course just be an upgrade-after-upgrade thing where upgrading any bunker will unlock the FRP upgrade, so you are forced to spend more munitions after the initial 60. I also don't really want Ostheer's FRO strategy to mimic British simcity what with requiring more bunkers. However with smaller and specialized squads Ostheer is less likely to be a blobbing faction even without additional manpower burden.
I also sort of think the FRP upgrade could replace he reinforcement one entirely and have the reinforcement rely solely on halftracks, so there would be the requirement of T2 plus fuel investment for the FRP to really work, rather than just building another bunker nearby. Replacing medics is also viable since squads can heal themselves and others now.

On the medic thing it could be an alternative upgrade to M5 halftrack, for a total of four possible but mutually exclusive roles:

Un-upgraded: transport, reinforce
1- quad 50cal for combat
2- FRP, requires toggle (immobilized)
3- medics, requires toggle (immobilized)

For a single halftrack the four roles cannot overlap so you can neither reinforce, heal or transport with that halftrack upgraded to FRP, and vice versa. So you either have to micromanage with multiple halftracks, which means less tanks and manpower, or just live with the limitations accordingly. Vanilla halftrack however remains viable simply because of mobile rienforcement that can still fight on its own or with infantry inside.

I do like the idea of OKW's IR halftrack providing the FRP; it would require it to be next to T2 for reinforcement combo, but can be hardcountered because its got neither weapons nor durability; it also means they are far more relevant in a game and can't be ignored by any blob-oriented player. It would effectively make FRP less effective due to easily being destroyed (and unwitting player retreating blob all the way back to HQ), while not actually changing the way FRP is handled for this faction. I personally prefer if OKW tried to stay a bit different than other halftrack-based FRP though, however the idea of halftracks filling the FRP role is still a good idea in itself. Definite +1.

I think what makes FRP better is if it's less effective on its own and thus requires other things nearby, which itself require more investment of resources and micro; so of all factions USF represents FRP the best, as it requires Major (T4 non-combat unit) plus ambulance together for effective retreat point. The more things required for useful FRP the better, IMO.
The only change I would want is if Major needs to upgrade to FRP first just like UKF and OKW, and munitions cost would mean less ability for BAR and bazooka blobbing.
Another idea is requiring all three officers to be on the map to allow or unlock FRP.

I'll leave this question here: if FRP were to return/stay for whatever reason, how should it work?

For which faction? Because you know, three of them have it, and they're hardly so similar we can make such a generalized statement.

If to be on topic, add it to EFA?

1. Remove healing
2. Remove reinforcement
3. Add weapon racks to structures
4. Let built units spawn from it

This makes it a more aggressive frp that requires third party reinforce and heal support.

This only suits USF and USF already has this limitaiton.
For OKW healing is fine since Sturmponiers can already drop medkits at vet0, and don't have weapon racks. I think ISG should NOT spawn from T2.

Maybe replace medics with ability to reinforce? That way you'd need both upgrades for T2 to be a useful FRP; without either, its effectiveness is greatly impeded: do you want option to retreat or option to reinforce? OKW has no halftrack so removing reinforcement is actually pointless.

Same goes for UKF; Forward Assembly already allows reinforcement, maybe requires upgrade with or alongside FRP upgrade? Infantry Sections can heal so it's not applicable. Weapon Racks probably should be another upgrade rather than removed altogether; maybe even make it so you have to upgrade to either Bren or PIAT but not both in one FA? A smart player will simply try to economize by one FA with Bren and leaving PIATs for base, rather than build two FAs just to accomodate.

EFA are fine with a limited FRP, Ost would need three bunkers for FRP, medics and reinforcement, a hefty MP investment but option is stil there; most would likely prefer supplementing with halftrack and healing from squads. Soviets can upgrade FRP via caches since they have no build-able field structures.

The problem with FRP for western factions is that they're not expensive, and come with large and inexpensive squads suitable for blobbing. You can simply up the cost and time for FRP and you can greatly nerf the ability to rely on them early and throughout a match. FRP should be a tactic that once chosen the player is heavily reliant on to work.

For the CoH1 fans out there the FRP feature could also just be a separate ability with a long cooldown, so if you blob and retreat, you not only need to make sure you press the right key, but also bear in mind that it has a long cooldown so you can't just run back and forth between FRP and a fight.
I also thought of an active ability for the FRP itself but I don't know if that could work or prove too technically cumbersome.

I would just add it to EFA since the biggest disparity is that WFA has both FRP and larger, stronger combat squads at 5-men each; but whereas Ostheer can just go MG42s, Soviets eed to build at least one building to get either a squad or support weapon.
In other words if Volks and Riflemen were 4-man squads the problem would likely be far less prevalent.

Isn't this the rubberbanding effect? Very annoying when it happens in your face, and often times result in things like units dying.

Sure it's not often, but that's like saying the Challenger incident didn't happen too often so don't bother changing.

True but that doesn't address the rest of your post, and my points in OP and in the post you quoted still stand.

I'm ignoring them because it's more important to consider what is really the problem, what would really solve it, and how it affects three different factions who utilize FRP differently from eachother. Talk about blobbing all you want, but the blobbing situation for OKW is different than that of USF, and blobbing is much harder to achieve with UKF. No one even talks about them specifically.

For OKW I don't think the FRP cost was ever increased, only some tweaks on Volksgrenadiers like increased cost and reduced Volks effectiveness. This overall discourages blobbing, but didn't really touch on the FRP element. If FRP cost was increased, took longer or even required another truck then you at least force the FRP option into mid-game, much closer to that of USFs major. A huge portion of the FRP investment as OKW therefore requires a lot of forward thinking, because you need to place the T2 truck where you want it but forward retreat comes much later. Maybe even require fuel so there is more tradeoff between FRP and teching up to tanks.
For USF major could have it as upgrade as well, just like the other factions' FRP unlock. Being a squad that can retreat or be transported and have call-in abilities makes USF's FRP the most versatile and offense-oriented FRP option, hardly comparable to the others'.
I don't think FRP is an issue with UKF, they require upgrade like OKW, require building like OKW, and with much of the resources on emplacements mean UKF blobs are rarer and less effective. If not then same change to cost for FRP can be applied.