Panthers two shot them and Pz4s three shot them? Please, explain this math to me.
Hint: The Panther and Pz4 do the same exact damage per shot.
And I guess by your standards the Panther has garbage maneuverability as well? You know... since it and the Jackson have pretty much the same exact maneuverability.
Bazooka penetration is actually quite good. Just too expensive to unlock in my opinion. Plus it is hard to field enough to be a real threat since you'll be cutting muni that could be used for M1919s/P47s/BARs
I didn't realize the two had the same damage, that's weird as I could have sworn panthers did more.
There is also something definitely wrong with the M36 pathing, or perhaps its the fact that panthers only have a 50% chance of being penetrated from the front vs 100% in the case of the M36. Regardless trying to keep them at maximum range when you have a super speedy tank that has fucking super powers is enough to make you never want to play the US faction again. |
My calculations may be off, but are you sure you didn't mean 9,500? If I did my math right, it should take over 40 minutes for the Jackson to fire 396 rounds to even reach 95,040 damage done.
It's also possible the number was bugged, the game stat tracker has problems calculating total damage sometimes. Once it said I had one death, before any units had even engaged.
Could have been bugged, I have never had a score that high before. The game took over an hour though. My player score was in the 6 digits. Near the end it consisted of me fielding 3 jacksons behind a bunch of IS-2s. We basically had wave after wave of panthers and king tigers. When that didn't work they basically just put out Jadgs and elephants and then it was over, you really don't have any reliable answer to that withouut ISU-152's.
It was frustrating as hell because we had them down to 80 points, and they basically bled us from 500 down to 0. |
Of course the only ting an okw player need to is spam volks and obers and win 100% of the time. oh wait they dont .
Also fun fact a rifleman with a zooka will win vs a JP4 elephant jagdtiger and will do a fair bit of damage vs the panther before the mg takes the rifleman out. also the axis dont have the better tanks they have tank destroyers and the weaker generalist tanks. this gives a false impression on the allied players that axis tanks are better.
oh btw while shreks are better the is-2 will block most attacks from a shrek squad. so complaining about the heavy armor is not valid
The only thing correct about your post was the first line. They can, and do fucking win by spamming volks and obers, the hilarious part is its one of the big problems with the OKW right now. The giant blob of doom.
Yea I can recall all those times my riflemen caught an unsupported elephant and jadgtiger out in the open away from their accompanying obers and volks.
Do you even believe the crap you are spewing right now? Good lord. Running rifles with zooks up to an elephant or obers supporting a jagd. That's not gonna end with the deaths of all my rifles while barely even scratching the paint, lol amazing tactical advice.
And apparently the IS-2 not instantly evaporating to shreks offends you as well.
Unbeleivable. |
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This and the German Elite commander are the only ones I use in 4 v 4. Nothing beats it. If you have an OKW buddy, and the right map, the 10min kingtiger will rape them time and time again.
It's stupidly good, but Ost is in a really weird place right now so I kind of enjoy having a useful couple commanders. |
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Hah, seriously the commander which has one ability that costs you IS-2s to take? Its an all or nothing gimmick, and if you just mortar the building and dig in with machine guns he will lose.
I once saw it used effectively on a 4 v 4 where all 4 players used it on City 17 and eventually every single frontier building on the map was an HQ. But they had crazy good teamwork so I didn't mind getting absolutely handled. |
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It drives me absolutely crazy that Axis can spam Obers and Shreks and win without even needing tanks, and when they do they have all the best tanks in the game. Meanwhile trying to win with the US is like climbing a mountain wearing roller skates. It takes forever, and you inevitably end up back where started wondering why you even bothered.
The long range accuracy and absurd penetration on the shrek is just icing on the fucking cake for Germans who already have such overwhelming AT capabilities that I just shake my head at Relics balance team.
Lets compare that with bazookas that will happily scratch the paint on a tiger/panther/jadgpanther/king tiger/elephant/jadgtiger but do little else. So basically every goddamn German tank except for the PIV, oh except you need to get in close and the PIV will decimate you with new squad mechanics.
Not to mention the bazooka was one of the most widely used weapons in the war and the Russian PTRs was actually far deadlier than the game makes it appear.
You barely see either in use. |
Honestly I believe the root of all tank balance problems start at the Panther. This may seem ridiculous, but this tank really is in a class of its own. Its fast normally, and with blitzkrieg its basically a fucking race car. It has very thick armour, meaning even the best AT weapons only have a 50% chance to pen the front. And supporting that fact, it has high health, so even a few penetrations rarely mean its in any danger. Then we factor in Smoke launchers, which mean that even if you do get it to low hp it has a "HAHAHAAH NOPE" button with a tiny munitions cost.
People say that its suffers from a lack of a decent weapon, but the panther successfully fills the role that everyone wishes there tanks would. Its a line breaker, the tip of the spear. It can effectively engage EVERY SINGLE ALLIED UNIT. Normally these units come in at a much higher cost, such as a king tiger or IS2. Not to mention each of these tanks suffers from a distinct weakness, the king tiger in mobility and the IS2 in survivability (Slower and no smoke launchers).
Ultimately in my opinion the Panther is undeniably the best tank in the game.
I agree.
I did a double take seeing that my Jacksons had inflicted 95,000 damage, but upon closer inspection they had very few kills. The problem, as you have aptly stated, is you have a unit with massive health, absurd speed, and laugh out loud survivability with smoke launchers. Near the end of the game the Germans would just blitz in, target my jacksons while ignoring the IS-2's and obliterate them while smoking away. It's incredibly difficult to score a kill on something that has more speed, health, armor, and damage. Not to mention a Jagdtiger and Elephant can 2 shot them from screens away while you have literally 0 counters.
Plus it's not like the Germans suffer from any kind of lack of viable AT. Every single unit in their tech tree does a better job in its role when compared to the allies. I dare you to try and find a situation where that isn't true. The only remaining units of note are the IS-2 (Which Germans complain about non stop, and ISU-152 which I will agree needs to be removed). But unfortunately without them the allied faction has nothing to deal with the heavy and ultra heavy tanks.
The balance right now is worse than it's ever been outside of 1 v 1 with the cheesy M20 rush being the only gambit the US faction seems to wield.
The problem is not that medium tanks are poor, it's that heavy tanks offer VASTLY SUPERIOR surviability vs investment. If you can build 3 medium tanks to his heavy, and his heavy can destroy 1-2 and still get away to repair then you have the current problem with the meta. Flanking is almost NEVER viable so Relics bullshit theory of 2-3 Shermans fighting a Tiger in a vacuum is as ridiculous as the current game balance. |
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For the love of God the US faction needs SOMETHING.
The US AT gun, in practice, seems to be the worst piece of garbage I have ever seen. It constantly misses, never seems to penetrate, and doesn't even get the benefit of the ZIS like arty barrage.
The Sherman is utterly pathetic at anything more than wiping large blobs of infantry.
Bazooks are wielded by dead men who don't quite know it yet. No accuracy, no pentration, no damage.
And the M36. Seriously? This thing has garbage maneuverability, laughable penetration vs panthers, has no anti infantry to speak of, and requires an opponent that doesn't know how to hit the NOS (blitzkrieg) button. Panthers 2 shot them, panzer 4s can kill them in 3 shots, pretty much a stiff breeze will kill this tank.
I just lost my 2nd 4 V 4 match today, and in both cases we were wiping the floor with the enemy team. Then out comes the panthers and sure enough the end of the match went down hill quickly from there. The end of the game saw me fielding 3 jacksons with a screen of IS-2's. At first this worked reasonably well, then out come the elephants, the jagdtigers, and the King tigers. Its absolutely absurd that axis can have a screen of troops with devastating panzeshrek hand held AT vs the US who have to try and field 4 units to counter it while dealing with Ultra heavy AT tanks with the range of the entire screen.
Yet relic says they have no plans to add any US heavy tanks. Seriously this company is utterly fucking retarded at balance.
I ended the match north of 95,000 damage from the jacksons as the result of some incredible teamwork on the part of the allies. We had a vastly superior team, but in the end we lost because ultimately the axis players can just spam panthers, tigers, and king tigers with little to no fear of any real AT on the part of the allied faction. With Obercommandos and Panzershreks dominating both infantry/tanks, and the US being forced to use ultra fragile units, the German faction required skill level is absurdly low compared to their allied counter parts Late Game.
The asymetrical balance is awful, has been awful, and will continue to be awful. Relic now has 4 teams to try and balance and my guess is they have no clue what to do about it.
The start is giving the allied faction some goddamn AT that actually works, or just removing the super heavies from the game. They are the main problem right now. |
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The faction balance of USF vs OKW is what makes me really unable to enjoy the USF to begin with.
Once they have obers your rifles are basically useless, once they get a panther your M36 is basically useless.
Obviously in practice the skill gap changes that balance, but time and time again I watch as the USF just gets stream rolled late game by manpower bleed on their now useless infantry, is unable to field enough of that infantry due to pop cap, and their "tank destroyers" get outclassed by panthers and up. Even dealing with jadgpanthers is a nightmare due to it's high armor,health, and high vet potential.
I don't understand what the USF has going for it. The units are weaker than German and Soviet counterparts and have huge crippling pop cap costs. The tech structure serves to enfeedble you by bleeding you once you reach the late game, and while officers are fun, I would much rather have more units.
This is mainly why I stick with the Soviets and find much more success with the SU-85 and IS-2. |
1) - Irrelevant, same concepts exist.
2) Don't care, it was an example. It is quite capable of gibbing squads. Commendable.
3) They are better against armor. They shred tanks amazingly and sov/us infantry AT is pathetic compared to pschrecks. These tanks are godlike on maps that make fragile TDs hard to use.
Look, they are all absurd units and allow inferior players to win. Just swallow the pill and realize that none of them are good for gameplay. I am being very fair here.
Does the ISU-152 cost you all remaining fuel and 25% of your manpower? Does it have 75 range and the ability to spot to the near full extent of the range by itself? Does it's AOE basically insta kill any infantry? Does it combine full AI with full AT?
The answer to all of those questions is no.
The Tiger Ace is totally fine for what it does: a final death blow to an already beaten opponent or an all in against an impending loss.
The ISU-152 completely reverses the course of games due to its absurd effectiveness vs everything. Surely even someone as dense as yourself can see that there is overwhelming evidence that it needs a look?
Late game those vet 3 infantry are very important, and having them wiped instantly from across the screen is just BS. I would say the same of any unit but this one has almost 0 counters so it's a serious problem for gameplay. |
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