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September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

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22 Aug 2019, 20:25 PM
#221
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

The tigers have far AOE damage from .1 to 1.75.... is that a typo or is it really getting a 17x boost and also beyond close AOE damage?


Obviously a typo, but I have no idea what it's supposed to be honestly (perhaps 0.175). Will get the correct values updated asap.
22 Aug 2019, 20:26 PM
#222
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1



Any gren that eats a 80*0.8 mortar round or grenade is still going to tank between 2-3 direct hit rifle rounds, and all at the single model level



Was a response to Hoshi, who was the prior poster when post was written. Thanks for adding a useless post to the thread.


You're welcome. Hope your day is as good as mine after reading these notes :D
22 Aug 2019, 20:27 PM
#223
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Why not just give grens 2 extra HP (like the wehr sniper) at vet 2/3?

That way, no insta-wipe and doesn't touch on this taboo of damage reduction?
22 Aug 2019, 20:29 PM
#224
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



Any gren that eats a 80*0.8 mortar round or grenade is still going to tank between 2-3 direct hit rifle rounds, and all at the single model level


For one, 80 x .8 is 64. This leaves 16 HP. So when you say 2-3 im sure you actually meant 1-2.

For two, I don't know about you, but im not leaving a squad fighting when they'll die in one or two shots.

22 Aug 2019, 20:30 PM
#225
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Why not just give grens 2 extra HP (like the wehr sniper) at vet 2/3?



Because Howitzers and tank shells deal 160 damage or more and have high close range AOE damage. 82 hitpoints would do close to nothing to avoid getting oneshot by the near AOE of such weapons.
22 Aug 2019, 20:30 PM
#226
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1389 | Subs: 1



Obviously a typo, but I have no idea what it's supposed to be honestly (perhaps 0.175). Will get the correct values updated asap.


Can you check inforamtion about these two changes too?

Pershing
- Far AOE damage from 0.2 to 0.225
- Mid AOE distance from 0.35 to 0.4
- HVAP cost from 90 to 60.


According to previous changelogs:
AOE distance from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 0/1.25/3.25 (not 0.35)
AOE damage from 1/0.4/0.2 to 0.75/0.35/0.2

So, was change mid AOE damage, or non-correct information about change mid AOE distance?

Same goes for IS-2 frag shot changes
Fragmentation round damage mid from 0.35 to 0.5
Fragmentation round far damage from 0.135 to 0.2


Previous changelog:
- AOE damage 1/0.5/0.3
- AOE distance 0.15/2/8
22 Aug 2019, 20:31 PM
#227
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785



For one, 80 x .8 is 64. This leaves 16 HP. So when you say 2-3 im sure you actually meant 1-2.

For two, I don't know about you, but im not leaving a squad fighting when they'll die in one or two shots.



Rifle damage is also multiplied by 0.8. So combat engineers (the only allied unit with 16 damage rifles after patch) will still need 2 hits.
22 Aug 2019, 20:31 PM
#228
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Nonsense they desperately needs this, as they get wiped so freaking easily with their 4 model squads.



As it is right now, every ostheer players is getting needlessly punished for just playing the faction and using its core mainline infantry unit with 4 models that get wiped by every sneeze and breeze out there



Tell that to the non doc soviet vehicle rooster. Every time a axis soldier farts a soviet vehicle is destroyed. They are needlesly punished for it.

The weak soviet vehicles and low hp ost squads are there by design. Ost has doctrines for that just as soviets have for weapon upgrades.
I think this is a bad change.
22 Aug 2019, 20:32 PM
#229
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Rifle damage is also multiplied by 0.8. So combat engineers (the only allied unit with 16 damage rifles) will still need 2 hits.
check again :snfPeter:
22 Aug 2019, 20:34 PM
#230
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607




Because Howitzers and tank shells deal 160 damage or more and have high close AOE damage. 82 hitpoints would do close to nothing to avoid getting oneshot by the near AOE of such weapons.


Isn't that true for all the other 4-man squads? Or even 5 man squads who cluster behind say a single stretch of sandbag... or yellow cover? I've had plenty of games where a 6 man squad gets nuked by a LEFH or walking stuka (especially team weapons like a mortar).
22 Aug 2019, 20:35 PM
#231
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

Does this mean isu 152 AOE will also have less damage against Grens? If it does it negates the point of the high explosive shells.
22 Aug 2019, 20:35 PM
#232
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

check again :snfPeter:


I edited my post right before this, expecting such a response from you.

Read the patch notes in this very thread. You know, the ones for the patch we're all discussing.



Isn't that true for all the other 4-man squads? Or even 5 man squads who cluster behind say a single stretch of sandbag... or yellow cover? I've had plenty of games where a 6 man squad gets nuked by a LEFH or walking stuka (especially team weapons like a mortar).


Squad-wipes are only an issue when it's Ostheer bitching about it, because absolutely no other faction in the game uses cover or stands still when firing.
22 Aug 2019, 20:36 PM
#233
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Tell that to the non doc soviet vehicle rooster. Every time a axis soldier farts a soviet vehicle is destroyed. They are needlesly punished for it.

The weak soviet vehicles and low hp ost squads are there by design. Ost has doctrines for that just as soviets have for weapon upgrades.
I think this is a bad change.
????? like ?
22 Aug 2019, 20:38 PM
#234
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Does this mean isu 152 AOE will also have less damage against Grens? If it does it negates the point of the high explosive shells.


Even in green cover, an actual hit will kill them since it does 240 damage.

240 * .5 * .8 = 96.
22 Aug 2019, 20:39 PM
#235
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



I edited my post right before this, expecting such a response from you.

Read the patch notes in this very thread. You know, the ones for the patch we're all discussing.


Guards still have 16 dmg rifles btw.


Squad-wipes are only an issue when it's Ostheer bitching about it, because absolutely no other faction in the game uses cover or stands still when firing.


Well no other faction also has

  • 4 men mainline inf (since when is Boister delayed?)
  • to face Large AOE mortars
22 Aug 2019, 20:40 PM
#236
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I edited my post right before this, expecting such a response from you.

Read the patch notes in this very thread. You know, the ones for the patch we're all discussing.

Combat Engineers
- Mosin Nagant rifle now matches those used by Conscripts
- Damage from 16 to 12
- Accuracy from 0.518/0.449/0.334 to 0.757/0.660/0.557

:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:
22 Aug 2019, 20:40 PM
#237
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Isn't that true for all the other 4-man squads? Or even 5 man squads who cluster behind say a single stretch of sandbag... or yellow cover? I've had plenty of games where a 6 man squad gets nuked by a LEFH or walking stuka (especially team weapons like a mortar).


Yes, but other 4 men squads are elite infantry that are supposed to be vulnerable, and not the mainline infantry. Obviously 5 and 6 man squads can be oneshot by explosive weapons too, but the chance of a full 5-6 model wipe is signifcantly lower than with the 4 men Grenadiers.
22 Aug 2019, 20:41 PM
#238
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785



Guards still have 16 dmg rifles btw.


Do they really now? Well, I stand corrected.

The math stays the same, however.


Combat Engineers
- Mosin Nagant rifle now matches those used by Conscripts
- Damage from 16 to 12
- Accuracy from 0.518/0.449/0.334 to 0.757/0.660/0.557

:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:


Epic. Guess it's only Guards then.
22 Aug 2019, 20:42 PM
#239
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607



Yes, but other 4 men squads are elite infantry that are supposed to be vulnerable, and not the mainline infantry. Obviously 5 and 6 man squads can be oneshot by explosive weapons too, but the chance of a full 5-6 model wipe is signifcantly lower than with the 4 men Grenadiers.


I guess so... I don't really think this is an elegant fix to what the perceived problem is, but oh well.

I think this change will punish small explosions over the big ones, and as a result make teching nades an even less appealing option.

22 Aug 2019, 20:50 PM
#240
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I guess so... I don't really think this is an elegant fix to what the perceived problem is, but oh well.

I think this change will punish small explosions over the big ones, and as a result make teching nades an even less appealing option.

oh yes they will be less useful vs vet 0 green right ? :snfPeter:
i guess vet 3 rifle bonus make all bullet base anti inf useless :snfPeter:
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