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Overwatch Flares, rework or remove

1 May 2019, 04:56 AM
#21
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


Its offtopic but it would depend of the prupose of the gold brick. As a paperweight it is not worth more than a lead one. But for general pruposes it is.

Actually that's a great example, because using it wrong doesn't change its value.

Look at the commisar squad. Both of his infantry modifier abilities have no cost to use but generate value. Free but valuable.
Something can have no cost and still have worth.
. The free flares are, well... Free and provide recon without so much as an arming time. That's poor design frankly. Adding the need to deploy them would really round them out. This is legit the only commander I can think of that grants passive that require nothing from the player as I think about it.
1 May 2019, 06:32 AM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Actually that's a great example, because using it wrong doesn't change its value.

Look at the commisar squad. Both of his infantry modifier abilities have no cost to use but generate value. Free but valuable.
Something can have no cost and still have worth.
. The free flares are, well... Free and provide recon without so much as an arming time. That's poor design frankly. Adding the need to deploy them would really round them out. This is legit the only commander I can think of that grants passive that require nothing from the player as I think about it.


You mean requiring some kind of input to gain the benefits of it, not just been a plain upgrade without cost right ?

If i have to make a list:

Units gaining abilities for free:

-IS/Rifles/Volks/Con building defenses or Conscripts been able to repair. Can't remember but Rifles used to have extended LoS on cover but it was really bugged and not working.
-Recent changes to Armor company with Elite vehicle crews.
-Hulldown. AT gun cammo. Dank Hunter Tanks cammo.

Changes to abilities:
-Old Thorough salvage (although not necessary a buff as it took longer).

Intel abilities:
-Radio Intercept and Forward "Intelligence/Or something like that". The bundle on the OW doctrine also gives their trucks the minimap passive ability.



1 May 2019, 06:32 AM
#23
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

It's free recon...

As free as a commander ability slot. As free as radio intercept from SU.
...That was correctly fixed on the British command tank. It should be nerfed here too...

UKF being nerfed does not mean Axis have to. Thats bias thinking. And who declared the judge and the jury at the same person?
...This has nothing to do with anyones likes or dislikes.

It absolutly does, apparently OP's dislike the ability and want it :reworked: (AKA ninja nerf), or removed.


Then it's a good thing you're the only one talking about that

Yeah, people dont get sarcasm at first try, but even slowpokes get the joke eventually.
1 May 2019, 06:35 AM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Actually that's a great example, because using it wrong doesn't change its value.

Look at the commisar squad. Both of his infantry modifier abilities have no cost to use but generate value. Free but valuable.
Something can have no cost and still have worth.
. The free flares are, well... Free and provide recon without so much as an arming time. That's poor design frankly. Adding the need to deploy them would really round them out. This is legit the only commander I can think of that grants passive that require nothing from the player as I think about it.


You mean requiring some kind of input to gain the benefits of it, not just been a plain upgrade without cost right ?

If i have to make a list:

Units gaining abilities for free:

-IS/Rifles/Volks/Con building defenses or Conscripts been able to repair. Can't remember but Rifles used to have extended LoS on cover but it was really bugged and not working.
-Recent changes to Armor company with Elite vehicle crews.
-Hulldown. AT gun cammo. Dank Hunter Tanks cammo.

Changes to abilities:
-Old Thorough salvage (although not necessary a buff as it took longer).

Intel abilities:
-Radio Intercept and Forward "Intelligence/Or something like that". The bundle on the OW doctrine also gives their trucks the minimap passive ability.


So been strict, it's both OW intel abilities, Radio and Elite crews.
1 May 2019, 08:07 AM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

One could start by increasing the time for the flares to arm. Currently they seem to arm instantly.
1 May 2019, 08:30 AM
#26
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



You mean requiring some kind of input to gain the benefits of it, not just been a plain upgrade without cost right ?

If i have to make a list:

Units gaining abilities for free:

-IS/Rifles/Volks/Con building defenses or Conscripts been able to repair. Can't remember but Rifles used to have extended LoS on cover but it was really bugged and not working.
-Recent changes to Armor company with Elite vehicle crews.
-Hulldown. AT gun cammo. Dank Hunter Tanks cammo.

Changes to abilities:
-Old Thorough salvage (although not necessary a buff as it took longer).

Intel abilities:
-Radio Intercept and Forward "Intelligence/Or something like that". The bundle on the OW doctrine also gives their trucks the minimap passive ability.




no, i mean the player needing to do something to make use of the ability
repair or construction abilities require the target unit to perform a task
hulldown requires the unit to hull down..
AT camo is a toggle that massacres speed and turns off after firing
dank camo requires the unit to sit in ambush as a giant bush

they all require some sort of input
id forgotten about elite armour, so ill grant you that but flares and radio beacon sws ninja hax ability require nothing but capping terretory and teching up and provide MASSIVE amounts of valuable intel, just by playing the game normally.
1 May 2019, 12:27 PM
#27
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

It absolutly does, apparently OP's dislike the ability and want it :reworked: (AKA ninja nerf), or removed.vYeah, people dont get sarcasm at first try, but even slowpokes get the joke eventually.


All of this is just you derailing a thread because you don't like me. I don't like you either, go ahead and pm me if you want to continue acting like a 5 year old


Units gaining abilities for free:

-IS/Rifles/Volks/Con building defenses or Conscripts been able to repair. Can't remember but Rifles used to have extended LoS on cover but it was really bugged and not working.


Perfect example. The option I voted for was a free ability on volks+sturms. This ability being free is only an issue because there's ZERO input. Radio intercept is as powerful as an free, no input ability should be.
1 May 2019, 12:35 PM
#28
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



Which isn't as strong as the flares. Not even close.


:doubt:

1 May 2019, 12:37 PM
#29
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Disclaimer: I agree overwatch flares are bollocks, but calling radio intercept a weaker ability is an.. interesting opinion.


Then where's your thread about it?
1 May 2019, 12:39 PM
#30
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

I suggest it be replaced by the 251 Owl Infrared Halftrack to limit it's abuse.

It can be replaced by something like the 250 or a regular 251 in it's place in the Med HQ.
this
1 May 2019, 12:40 PM
#31
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



Then where's your thread about it?


Disclaimer 2: I never said radio intercept should be changed in any way.

The implementation of overwatch flares should be changed however.
1 May 2019, 12:42 PM
#32
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Disclaimer 2: I never said radio intercept should be changed in any way.

The implementation of overwatch flares should be changed however.


Then whats interesting about saying radio intercept is weaker? It's a strong ability to be sure, but on map recon will always be more useful
1 May 2019, 12:52 PM
#33
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



Then whats interesting about saying radio intercept is weaker? It's a strong ability to be sure, but on map recon will always be more useful


I don't agree on-map recon is always more useful. Radio Intercept provides invaluable intel that overwatch flares wouldn't be able to:

- Knowing a countersniper is on the field.
- Knowing your opponent has skipped a certain tech building / chose med or mech.
- Knowing how many tellers have been made.
- Figure out which doctrine your opponent went (doctrinal units).

Again, not saying Radio Intercept should be changed in any way, just that the main problem with overwatch flares is not their strength, but their implementation.
1 May 2019, 13:18 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Again, not saying Radio Intercept should be changed in any way, just that the main problem with overwatch flares is not their strength, but their implementation.


Then you're disagreeing with my choice of words. I'm saying overwatch flares are too strong for the lack of cost/input they require. Not that they're too strong, period.

As I said, I voted for a free ability on volks+sturms. I also like elchinos idea, which makes it more in-line with radio intercept.
1 May 2019, 14:00 PM
#35
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Then whats interesting about saying radio intercept is weaker? It's a strong ability to be sure, but on map recon will always be more useful

Actually not. The only biggest role recon has is to KNOW if your enemy has already fielded a specific troop. I e. Shock units (T70, FHT, Lucas, m20, stuart, etc). Therefore radio intercept gives you that information without needing to know where is it.
You want to fill the gap between surprise and ambush.
Map vision alone is only useful for indirect fire.

Therefore radio intercept is stronger (and free'er) than ow flares
1 May 2019, 14:03 PM
#36
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3


Map vision alone is only useful for indirect fire.


:snfBarton:
1 May 2019, 14:05 PM
#37
1 May 2019, 14:10 PM
#38
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Actually not. The only biggest role recon has is to KNOW if your enemy has already fielded a specific troop. I e. Shock units. Therefore radio intercept gives you that information without needing to know where is it.


Our opinions on this don't matter unless you think flares shouldn't be changed at all. Is that what you think? You went from "l2p" to approving of a nerf, so clearly you're here just to argue with me...

Make a thread about radio intercept if you think it's better.
1 May 2019, 14:31 PM
#39
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Our opinions on this don't matter unless you think flares shouldn't be changed at all. Is that what you think? You went from "l2p" to approving of a nerf, so clearly you're here just to argue with me...

Make a thread about radio intercept if you think it's better.

Third time in a single thread you go personal.

Facts != person != other person agreeing.

I don't want to say that only childish discussions devolve into personal level.

I just pointed out your logic is not accurate and you don't like it.

Radio intercept ends up being your worst enemy now that you (want to) attack 'free' upgrade abilities, because it's far more useful thN the flares implementation, yet you don't complaint about it.

I accept your desire to nerf okm, you can't argue in a logic fashion to achieve that
1 May 2019, 14:33 PM
#40
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Where's 'remove, don't replace?'

Overwatch has six abilities in it. Goliaths and flares should never have been bundled.




If it stays, I think the sight radius should be reduced to a pretty token level.

Then it serves its original purpose as a warning that Goliaths have been selected.
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