OKW "grand offensive" game breaking?

Good find, but i hope you noticed panzergrenadiers are significantly more expensive, come later, you cant use them as your baseline infantry and have 4 models, making them vulnerable to things like, for example, 75mm sherman.

What do these things have to do with Tactical Movement and Panzerschrecks?

Having concerns about Panzerschrecks on Panzerfusiliers is fine, but we weren't talking about that.

As for shrecks performing badly while sprinting, it doesnt seem to be the case when you "a click" your pgrens blob in general direction of enemy tank. From what i saw its pretty common strategy in team games.

That's great when the enemy player is afk. If they are reversing their vehicles however, you'll find that the sprinting Panzerschrecks can not keep up and won't fire properly most of the time because by the time they are done turning around the vehicle will be out of range.

What do these things have to do with Tactical Movement and Panzerschrecks?

Having concerns about Panzerschrecks on Panzerfusiliers is fine, but we weren't talking about that.




That's great when the enemy player is afk. If they are reversing their vehicles however, you'll find that the sprinting Panzerschrecks can not keep up and won't fire properly most of the time because by the time they are done turning around the vehicle will be out of range.

Tactical movement is riskier with pgrens since they're 4 men, meaning they're more vulnerable to tank guns and other explosives, and are a significantly more expensive squad, both to produce and to reinforce, and are available later, meaning you can't have as many of them. There's a world of differences between the two units, and that makes sprint much better on pfusies than tactical assault or sprint (from ambush camo doctrines) is with pgrens. Heck, it makes them a better AT unit in general, which is fine, but giving them sprint too is a bit much.

Sprinting pschrecks can still keep up with vehicles a lot better than non-sprinting pschrecks. I have noticed that bug though. Happens sometimes with other units too, like commandos.

It doesn't matter how cheap the squad is or how many models they have when they can't fire the weapon effectively while using the ability. Which was my point.

What do these things have to do with Tactical Movement and Panzerschrecks?

Having concerns about Panzerschrecks on Panzerfusiliers is fine, but we weren't talking about that.




That's great when the enemy player is afk. If they are reversing their vehicles however, you'll find that the sprinting Panzerschrecks can not keep up and won't fire properly most of the time because by the time they are done turning around the vehicle will be out of range.

Are you trolling? You brought up panzergrenadiers with mass sprint as a proof its "allright", im explaining why its different from 5men 250mp squads with double schreck that can act as mainline infantry.

I see people using shreck panzergrenadiers all the time, especialy in team games, without any issues. Maybe they are turning or lying down or whatever, it doesnt affect their performance in a noticable fasion.

Well, brits had access to PIATs on engies and still BOYS AT rifle section was used.

Yes because they have the Guards PTRS (high acc vs inf) and they were brits' only snare source. You barely see them being used however since Sappers got AT nade, even tho they are still a decent unit cuz they have the Guards PTRS rifle as mentioned

True nobody would sacrfice AI espacially since you can get a rkten and have snare

How about giving them the guards ptrs?

The only reason peaple use penal ptrs is becouse of the lack of pak or snare

Yup, that might work.

Oh and penals still work in late game cuz of the SVT and especially cuz of the heavy satchel snare that keeps Panthers and P4s away on distance. But normal fusies with penal PTRS would suck hard. (I do not wanna see AT satchel on Fusiliers tho)

What about a Shrek and 2 at rifles? That gives them a hell of alot of AT power at the cost of almost all of their AI, even if they are guards AT rifles. Then the snare alone is sufficient since the Shrek deals enough burst damage and sprint doesn't matter as a single Shrek isn't THAT devistating and AT rifles have a lot of down time. If what I said makes any sense...
Keeps the theme of AT specialist without being over powered (hopefully)

Yes because they have the Guards PTRS (high acc vs inf) and they were brits' only snare source. You barely see them being used however since Sappers got AT nade, even tho they are still a decent unit cuz they have the Guards PTRS rifle as mentioned

And new pfussies have tellers, right out of the gate snare(plugging the only OKWs disadvantage in early game) and are cheap and spammable.

So its not like AT rifle pfussies wouldn't bring another unique tool that base army lacks, just like in brit case.

I still do not understand the idea behind turing an AI-Scouting specialist into AT specialist. With the amount of changes needed we might aswell create a new infantry unit and leave Pfusies to be what they are.
Anyway, Penals get PTRS specifically because T1 has no other AT options, pfussies on the other hand always have Raketen backing them up.

If we're giving these guys tellers, can we finally fix tellers? Literally just nerf their damage by 20, so they can't one-hit kill all the 400hp vehicles.

Leaving them with 20hp and a dead engine means you need a sneeze to finish them off, so there's no real reason this is asking too much

I still do not understand the idea behind turing an AI-Scouting specialist into AT specialist. With the amount of changes needed we might aswell create a new infantry unit and leave Pfusies to be what they are.
Anyway, Penals get PTRS specifically because T1 has no other AT options, pfussies on the other hand always have Raketen backing them up.

if you want fussies as a recon specialist thats still an option. they effectively DID make a new unit AND left fussies as they are as an option. if you want fussies as exist you can have them, if you want AT fussies you can have them too!

if you want fussies as a recon specialist thats still an option. they effectively DID make a new unit AND left fussies as they are as an option. if you want fussies as exist you can have them, if you want AT fussies you can have them too!

Not with all the changes required to make them work, I really feeel like this is going to break team games with AT-inf spam (and possibly force more nerfs further on). And what the other commander with Pfussies? Suddenly your JT has all the AT-Inf required to cover it from flanking vehicles, yet again, possibly forcing more changes.

I dont think pfusies AT will break the game more than paradropped SVTs and Cheaper elite rangers.
This seems to be the final countdown...

If you did give Pfussies Panzerbusches instead of schrecks, you could give them Button too.

That'd give them great lategame utility, but they wouldn't work well as a blob.

People keeps debating how much double shrek panzerfuzzliers blob will ruin the game, that two of those units will easily win vs Infantry and tanks BUT does ANYONE here tested that in real match? BalanceTeam would much more prefer real feedback than a opition of single players that didn't even see changes in game. Mod is available for everyone so nothing stops from testing it.

Remember that in deffault the panzerfuzzliers were a 6 model squad. Now they are 5. They are a weaker squad compare to basic volks squad. I wouldn't be worried about their AI effectiveness when they will be equipt with 2xshrek.

IN regard to the arguments that early game snare shouldn't be available becouse it kills the soviet M3 tactic, let me just remind that Panzerfuzz are doctrinal unit. The role of a commander is also to counter certain style of playing. Remember that if panzerfuzz are weaker than volks early game then penals are gonna be even more effective vs them.

Personally for me the biggest concern is tactical movement potensial abusement combine with shrek upgrade.

I dont think pfusies AT will break the game more than paradropped SVTs and Cheaper elite rangers.
This seems to be the final countdown...

Para drop SVTs arnt going to change much. It's in a doctrine with call in infantry armed with 6 SVTs in a faction that can field infantry with 6 SVTs. Is 3 on cons going to change the balance of the game? Half the fire power of penals with defensive vet? Or is it the 3 SVTs on CE that are going to bend balance to destruction?
SVTs are worse than m1 garands so sharing isn't going to matter much there, Tommies with SVTs might be interesting but if it takes up a slot you would probably be better with another bren.... I fail to see the gamebreaking impact here....

Nobody:

OKW gets new changes/commanders/etc

Everyone: OKW OP, plz nerf

Para drop SVTs arnt going to change much. It's in a doctrine with call in infantry armed with 6 SVTs in a faction that can field infantry with 6 SVTs. Is 3 on cons going to change the balance of the game? Half the fire power of penals with defensive vet? Or is it the 3 SVTs on CE that are going to bend balance to destruction?
SVTs are worse than m1 garands so sharing isn't going to matter much there, Tommies with SVTs might be interesting but if it takes up a slot you would probably be better with another bren.... I fail to see the gamebreaking impact here....

A faction pumping resources to boost another faction is something game breaking.
Ask SU repair stations, fuel drops.

Axis can do that too, but is even more rare to see nowdays and much more limited. (I think only luftwaffe support can)

A faction pumping resources to boost another faction is something game breaking.
Ask SU repair stations, fuel drops.

Axis can do that too, but is even more rare to see nowdays and much more limited. (I think only luftwaffe support can)

Empyrical data provided by existence of this kind of commanders for all factions and all factions being able to do it in one way or another proves your theory incorrect.

Proven imbalances were addressed and patched out quickly and the only one that turned to be too potent was dual LMGs for cons. Everything else works perfectly fine after cost and counterability adjustments.

If it was as gamebreaking as you make it sound, luftwaffe supply doctrine fuel/muni drop would be scrapped, not given to more doctrines as its most powerful ability of this kind. 50 fuel for 200mp instantly is a steal, yet its not gamebreaking. Care to explain why?

Empyrical data provided by existence of this kind of commanders for all factions and all factions being able to do it in one way or another proves your theory incorrect.

Proven imbalances were addressed and patched out quickly and the only one that turned to be too potent was dual LMGs for cons. Everything else works perfectly fine after cost and counterability adjustments.

If it was as gamebreaking as you make it sound, luftwaffe supply doctrine fuel/muni drop would be scrapped, not given to more doctrines as its most powerful ability of this kind. 50 fuel for 200mp instantly is a steal, yet its not gamebreaking. Care to explain why?

or what's more, the ability to drop dps focusing weapons like the vickers k OR Piats already in game.

Sharing the SVT of all things is hardly game breaking when it's sharing with units that can already arm themselves with better especially when already exists the ability to share with team mates to patch thir holes (supply drop for OKW and weapon drops to the Soviet)