USF Tech Changes Mod Changelog

guys, M20 is not problem

Main issue is lieutanant build time and BAR

Too long to build and have no BAR, WTF?

it is worse than now, lol

Copy from the official thread :

Hello,

I would like to propose an idea on how to deal with the issue of too much infantry for USF due to the officers.

Instead of giving the free officer, lets make the tech when finished, rewards you with a 'Designate squad as officer squad' ability, that you can apply on one of your riflemen to transform it into the desired officer squad.

This will be flexible enough to allow officer heavy builds, elite infantry builds and allow more diversity.

I still think we didn't need to nerf manpower, fuel, and building time for officers at the same time. We could just nerf one of these gradually wiht constant monitoring. You guys change things too abruptly.

Copy from the official thread :

Hello,

I would like to propose an idea on how to deal with the issue of too much infantry for USF due to the officers.

Instead of giving the free officer, lets make the tech when finished, rewards you with a 'Designate squad as officer squad' ability, that you can apply on one of your riflemen to transform it into the desired officer squad.

This will be flexible enough to allow officer heavy builds, elite infantry builds and allow more diversity.

That would be awesome, but I forsee problems with pricing and timing of said ability.

I still think we didn't need to nerf manpower, fuel, and building time for officers at the same time. We could just nerf one of these gradually wiht constant monitoring. You guys change things too abruptly.

This wouldn't be CoH if it wasn't like that.

When it comes to nerfs, its always heavy bundle package.

Instead of giving the free officer, lets make the tech when finished, rewards you with a 'Designate squad as officer squad' ability, that you can apply on one of your riflemen to transform it into the desired officer squad.

I like the idea. Not sure if there is a scope as to what they can change and if this is possible. Also likely that this will require a lot of rebalancing of rifles in addition since the "free squads" will be missing.

I still think we didn't need to nerf manpower, fuel, and building time for officers at the same time. We could just nerf one of these gradually wiht constant monitoring. You guys change things too abruptly.

This wouldn't be CoH if it wasn't like that.

When it comes to nerfs, its always heavy bundle package.

The fuel price remained the same because starting fuel was also increased. The manpower cost is simply back to what it's always been, while tech in total is still potentially made cheaper (Major costing less). Build time is made a mere 10 seconds longer which is a lot less than the time that's shaved off by requiring 20/30 less fuel than in live version. I see no 'heavy bundle package' here?

I would suggest testing the following changes:
Instead of using a 1 and 1.5 tech system use a 0.5 tech system.
(cost might need some changes, should server as examples)
(tech level are compared to ostheer)
Tech options:

Platoon command post (tech level 0.5)
cost 60/5 gives access to HMG. (the weapon might need to be toned)(no free officer).

Can be upgrade to unlock LT and m20 cost 40/15, m20 can now be upgraded to greyhound once Battalion Command post has been unlocked. One could add the BAR unlock and adjust price. (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up) (tech level 1.5)

Company command post (tech level 0.5)
Cost 60/5 gives access to Mortar. One could add the bazooka unlock and adjust price(no free officer)

Can be upgraded to unlock Captain, access to ATG and M15a1 cost cost 100/25 (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up) (tech level 2)

Battalion Command post
If PcP and CcP are unlocked of one of them upgrade one can unlock Battalion Command post for 100/40 getting access to Stuart (that might need some buffs), even a toned down M8a1 (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up)(tech level 2.5). Can be upgrade to unlock the rest of the vehicles.

The ideas behind the changes are:
Adapt tech cost to follow Ostheer tech tree

Have more tools to better time units

Get rid of "free" officers system which makes it difficult to quantify tech cost, and reduces the space for doctrinal call-in units

Remove the pack howitzer from the stock options since it would give a edge in support weapons vs Ostheer while a infantry edge already exists.

Allow better timing for USF calling units like the M10,dozer, that can now find a spot requiring some tech.

I would suggest testing the following changes:
Instead of using a 1 and 1.5 tech system use a 0.5 tech system.
(cost might need some changes, should server as examples)
(tech level are compared to ostheer)
Tech options:

Platoon command post (tech level 0.5)
cost 60/5 gives access to HMG. (the weapon might need to be toned)(no free officer).

Can be upgrade to unlock LT and m20 cost 40/15, m20 can now be upgraded to greyhound once Battalion Command post has been unlocked. One could add the BAR unlock and adjust price. (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up) (tech level 1.5)

Company command post (tech level 0.5)
Cost 60/5 gives access to Mortar. One could add the bazooka unlock and adjust price(no free officer)

Can be upgraded to unlock Captain, access to ATG and M15a1 cost cost 100/25 (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up) (tech level 2)

Battalion Command post
If PcP and CcP are unlocked of one of them upgrade one can unlock Battalion Command post for 100/40 getting access to Stuart (that might need some buffs), even a toned down M8a1 (no free officer) (if officer comes "free" cost need to go up)(tech level 2.5). Can be upgrade to unlock the rest of the vehicles.

The ideas behind the changes are:
Adapt tech cost to follow Ostheer tech tree

Have more tools to better time units

Get rid of "free" officers system which makes it difficult to quantify tech cost, and reduces the space for doctrinal call-in units

Remove the pack howitzer from the stock options since it would give a edge in support weapons vs Ostheer while a infantry edge already exists.

Allow better timing for USF calling units like the M10,dozer, that can now find a spot requiring some tech.

your suggestion is so awful

why a u want USF nerf again?

have u ever played USF seriously?

your suggestion is so awful

Thank for taking the time of reading such a long post.

why a u want USF nerf again?

I didn't want to nerf USF in the first place, actually I have posted multiply times that imo the USF power level should not change but that other factions should be toned down.

On the other hand if USF is redesigned without to have no disadvantage in tech, imo it should have a tech tree that is balanced around Ostheer tech tree.

have u ever played USF seriously?

Yes I have.
I would appreciated it if balance debate where not turned into personal issues especially in feedback thread.

I didn't want to nerf USF in the first place, actually I have posted multiply times that imo the USF power level should not change but that other factions should be toned down.

On the other hand if USF is redesigned without to have no disadvantage in tech, imo it should have a tech tree that is balanced around Ostheer tech tree.

USF still doesnt have a lot of things that ostheer does. No flamers, no sniper, no rocket arty, nothing larger than medium tanks, 1 combat infantry squad, no t0 hmg, no halftrack. It's got its own advantages and disadvantages already (like pack howie, which really shouldn't be removed as you suggested). Ostheer has plenty of advantages that balance out the fact that riflemen are slightly better than grens (and much better in the late game after double the muni investment).

Get rid of "free" officers system which makes it difficult to quantify tech cost

The squads in of themselves are worth 300 MP. That means USF LT tech costs -100 MP 50 FU at the moment.

Thank for taking the time of reading such a long post.


I didn't want to nerf USF in the first place, actually I have posted multiply times that imo the USF power level should not change but that other factions should be toned down.

On the other hand if USF is redesigned without to have no disadvantage in tech, imo it should have a tech tree that is balanced around Ostheer tech tree.


Yes I have.
I would appreciated it if balance debate where not turned into personal issues especially in feedback thread.

I don't know anything about you or what factions you play so don't take this personal. Most every time I see one of your suggestions for a "buff' or change to USF or Soviets, it's really a nerf that you call a buff, like the suggestion above.

Relic is about as likely to remove the "free" Captain and Lieutenant as they are to remove emplacements from UKF. They want to factions to remain somewhat unique. Also, there seems to be pretty good balance between Ost and Soviet so any changes that they do is likely to be with the intent of bringing the other factions to that level.

USF still doesnt have a lot of things that ostheer does. No flamers, no sniper, no rocket arty, nothing larger than medium tanks, 1 combat infantry squad, no t0 hmg, no halftrack. It's got its own advantages and disadvantages already (like pack howie, which really shouldn't be removed as you suggested). Ostheer has plenty of advantages that balance out the fact that riflemen are slightly better than grens (and much better in the late game after double the muni investment).

USF has more powerful infantry thus it does not need an advantage in indirect fire also.

Advantages at other stages of the game like rocket artillery, should be balanced separately.

When it comes to tech Ostheer have linear, buy in bulk technology that many times force to unlock all tech.

USF had the choice of what to unlock and when but come in the price of having to chose between AI and AT. If that weakness is removed their tech should balanced having Ostheer tech in mind.

The squads in of themselves are worth 300 MP. That means USF LT tech costs -100 MP 50 FU at the moment.

That is one part of it, the other is that tech comes at the same time with the unit creating a spike.

The "free" units create another issues of taking up roaster and leave less room for doctrinal units. Some time people just do not want the "free" officer imo the should have that choice.

A promotion system is an alternative.

But having to choose between AI and AT is stupid, which is why it's being reworked, the faction no longer has the old strengths that allowed you to mitigate this weakness.
No other faction has this flaw and once it's gone, I hope it never shows up again, in CoH3 or any other Relic game.

But having to choose between AI and AT is stupid, which is why it's being reworked, the faction no longer has the old strengths that allowed you to mitigate this weakness.
No other faction has this flaw and once it's gone, I hope it never shows up again, in CoH3 or any other Relic game.

If the goal is to removed tech weakness because their are "stupid" lets:
Remove the tech weakness of OKW that have to chose between Leig/heal/AAHT and light vehicles
no other faction has this flaw

Remove the linear teching of UKF
No other faction has this flaw

Remove the linear battle phase teching of Ostheer
No other faction has this flaw

Remove the choice of elite infantry and support weapons form Soviet
No other faction has this flaw

Bye bye Pack Howie and AAHT, RIP.

How about swap M20 with pack howitzer. In this case u wouldn't lose the timing of M20 because captain could accelerate the building while delay the tech a little bit.

guys, M20 is not problem

Main issue is lieutanant build time and BAR

Too long to build and have no BAR, WTF?

it is worse than now, lol

The M20 would be much better if it came without the bazooka but included armor skirts.