Buff Shocks
29 Jul 2018, 14:35 PM
#21
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It was rhetorical question.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Jul 2018, 14:36 PM
#22
Posts: 223
Same goes with Rangers and Paratroopers, but still, some people manage to field 2-3 squads for flanking or tank mgs
Please show me a high level replay where there are 2-3 elites sent to tank MGs please. Oh wait..
Fail of War 3 
29 Jul 2018, 15:57 PM
#23
Posts: 1355
Same goes with Rangers and Paratroopers, but still, some people manage to field 2-3 squads for flanking or tank mgs
In 1s or above?
In 1s it's a manpower drain, very unreasonable to do that.
29 Jul 2018, 16:03 PM
#24
Posts: 571
BARs definitely
Conscript.
Nothing 12 squad of glorious russian man cant support )))))
29 Jul 2018, 18:09 PM
#25
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedWhat kind of buff should shocks get? For the state that they are in, any buff is a good buff. I have a feeling that they don't scale that well so something that will give them better performance at vet2/3.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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29 Jul 2018, 19:12 PM
#26
Posts: 573
Make them more like paratroopers/PPSh cons
Give them 2 or 3 Penal SVT's and buff their PPSh range to same levels as thompsons, make these improved PPSh transferable upon model deaths
There you go, Shocks fixed
Give them 2 or 3 Penal SVT's and buff their PPSh range to same levels as thompsons, make these improved PPSh transferable upon model deaths
There you go, Shocks fixed
29 Jul 2018, 19:21 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
My suggestion from another thread
https://www.coh2.org/topic/81491/suggestions-for-commanders-revamp
Shock Troops
Reinforcement price from 31 to 30
Call-in cost up 10%, can now also be built from T1 for normal price. (To make T1 more oriented for heavy infantry use. The building could also provide some sort of tech bonus to infantry)
New vet 1 ability "bulletproof" *0.75 target size *0.90 accuracy for the duration, cost 25 munition.
Maybe replace some of the vet 3 accuracy bonus with reload and/or cool-down.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/81491/suggestions-for-commanders-revamp
Shock Troops
Reinforcement price from 31 to 30
Call-in cost up 10%, can now also be built from T1 for normal price. (To make T1 more oriented for heavy infantry use. The building could also provide some sort of tech bonus to infantry)
New vet 1 ability "bulletproof" *0.75 target size *0.90 accuracy for the duration, cost 25 munition.
Maybe replace some of the vet 3 accuracy bonus with reload and/or cool-down.
29 Jul 2018, 19:21 PM
#28
Posts: 393
I'd like it if they could throw a barrage of Smokes to cover a wider area. Maybe even give a targeting UI similar to the Centaur's Strafing Barrage only with smoke bombs. THAT will be useful. 
30 Jul 2018, 00:59 AM
#29
Posts: 5279
My suggestion from another thread
https://www.coh2.org/topic/81491/suggestions-for-commanders-revamp
Shock Troops
Reinforcement price from 31 to 30
Call-in cost up 10%, can now also be built from T1 for normal price. (To make T1 more oriented for heavy infantry use. The building could also provide some sort of tech bonus to infantry)
New vet 1 ability "bulletproof" *0.75 target size *0.90 accuracy for the duration, cost 25 munition.
Maybe replace some of the vet 3 accuracy bonus with reload and/or cool-down.
give them heroic charge...
#stalinwept
30 Jul 2018, 02:39 AM
#30
Posts: 64
Permanently BannedJust revert the grenade and smoke cool down change. It's scary enough when shocks charge into your units.
At least the old smoke and made trick actually requires micro and positioning rather than the classic Obers/LMG paras a move and melt everything.
At least the old smoke and made trick actually requires micro and positioning rather than the classic Obers/LMG paras a move and melt everything.
30 Jul 2018, 02:43 AM
#31
Posts: 64
Permanently BannedI'd like it if they could throw a barrage of Smokes to cover a wider area. Maybe even give a targeting UI similar to the Centaur's Strafing Barrage only with smoke bombs. THAT will be useful.
Hmmm "grenade thrower" unit could be interesting with shocks only useful for grenade and cqb support. Maybe nerf armour and smoke cool down but give two different smoke abilities (one like you suggest and a vanilla cheap smoke with rifle nade range).
Obviously with stats and cost changed accordingly but it would stop the current complained crossover with ppsh cons.
30 Jul 2018, 07:39 AM
#32
Posts: 394
Seriously they're so freaking bad it's not even funny. PPSH cons do a comparable job while being more cost efficient AND come in a meta doctrine. Why would I use Shocks? Their DPS isn't Ranger/Paras+Thompsons level of good(ask any Axis main what happens if angry Americans with Thompsons come charging). Their armor and smoke grenade are the only things going for them but why would I care? Guards handle everything Shocks can but better PLUS they can counter LV meta.
Buff their lethality to make them worth using, currently Guards>PPSH Cons>>>>>>>>>>>>Shocks when it comes to what's worth using.
They come at 2 CP's, which is still early game really. They are shock unit at 2CP to supplement Cons or Penals etc. Their effectiveness diminishes as time goes on, that's why they come in at 2CP in the first place. You have Cons for late game with PPSH.
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
30 Jul 2018, 12:38 PM
#33
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Make them more like paratroopers/PPSh cons
Give them 2 or 3 Penal SVT's and buff their PPSh range to same levels as thompsons, make these improved PPSh transferable upon model deaths
There you go, Shocks fixed
I think their initial shock value is pretty on point, especially in certain CQC team games maps. It's mostly late game when they start to become less effective when the Germans can field vetted/elite long range infantry and vehicles. Perhaps introduce the SVTs as a package to upgrade their mid-long range DPS as the game goes on?
30 Jul 2018, 13:10 PM
#34
Posts: 573
I think their initial shock value is pretty on point, especially in certain CQC team games maps. It's mostly late game when they start to become less effective when the Germans can field vetted/elite long range infantry and vehicles. Perhaps introduce the SVTs as a package to upgrade their mid-long range DPS as the game goes on?
These 2-3 SVT's arent there to buff shocks, they are drawback to make sure they wont exterminate everyone in point blank ranges.
In exchange shocks get PPSh range increased, in combination with SVT's it would make Shocks useful at midrange
Thats how Paratroopers/PPSh cons work, it's not just about point blank dps, it's about ability to do some damage on the move/midrange instead of just doing nothing but bleeding themselves to death like Shocks do now
30 Jul 2018, 13:21 PM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Changing the DPS curve of PPsh to much that of Thompson is actually bad design. Then it should also change for unit like commandos and assault grenadiers.
Weapon curves where created to make things simpler for player to understand and use. Weapon of the same type should behave similarly and the exceptions kept to bare minimum.
Assault Guards are also equipped with PPsh and SVT and shocks would overlap.
That is why my suggestion was a defensive timed ability that would help reduce bleed without making the unit OP.
Weapon curves where created to make things simpler for player to understand and use. Weapon of the same type should behave similarly and the exceptions kept to bare minimum.
Assault Guards are also equipped with PPsh and SVT and shocks would overlap.
That is why my suggestion was a defensive timed ability that would help reduce bleed without making the unit OP.
30 Jul 2018, 13:26 PM
#36
Posts: 573
Ass Grens are not elite CQC squad, they arent even direct combat unit, they are flank/harrass unit.
Commandos are not direct combat unit either, but you can turn them into one by giving them 2x Brens, which gives almost same long-range DPS as 2x Bren IS
Only Paratroopers and Rangers have exact same role as Shocks, and they all can do mid-range DPS, while Shocks are point-blank only.
It's a no-brainer change to give Shocks PPSh same buff Thompsons recieved
Commandos are not direct combat unit either, but you can turn them into one by giving them 2x Brens, which gives almost same long-range DPS as 2x Bren IS
Only Paratroopers and Rangers have exact same role as Shocks, and they all can do mid-range DPS, while Shocks are point-blank only.
It's a no-brainer change to give Shocks PPSh same buff Thompsons recieved
30 Jul 2018, 13:27 PM
#37
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
These 2-3 SVT's arent there to buff shocks, they are drawback to make sure they wont exterminate everyone in point blank ranges.
In exchange shocks get PPSh range increased, in combination with SVT's it would make Shocks useful at midrange
Thats how Paratroopers/PPSh cons work, it's not just about point blank dps, it's about ability to do some damage on the move/midrange instead of just doing nothing but bleeding themselves to death like Shocks do now
Maybe 4 trophy STG-44 to increase the range or 6 AVT-40, it's all the same SVT-40 only add short burst (I think it's quite possible)
30 Jul 2018, 13:37 PM
#38
Posts: 573
Maybe 4 trophy STG-44 to increase the range or 6 AVT-40, it's all the same SVT-40 only add short burst (I think it's quite possible)
Thats unnecessary complex, what Shocks need is a simple buff to PPSh range.
Thompsons were also utterly uselss before their range was inreased, but Lelic in their infinite wisdom completely forgotten about Thompsons Soviet counterpart. Hence - Rangers and Paratroopers are viable and desired and Shocks are bleeding machines who get put down by STG Volks like rabid dogs
30 Jul 2018, 13:41 PM
#39
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Ass Grens are not elite CQC squad, they arent even direct combat unit, they are flank/harrass unit.
Commandos are not direct combat unit either, but you can turn them into one by giving them 2x Brens, which gives almost same long-range DPS as 2x Bren IS
Only Paratroopers and Rangers have exact same role as Shocks, and they all can do mid-range DPS, while Shocks are point-blank only.
It's a no-brainer change to give Shocks PPSh same buff Thompsons recieved
If you need a mid range DPS unit I suggest you use Penals.
Comparing Soviet units and USF units is misleading since the factions are differently designed. In addition Paras/Ranger are CP 3/ have to pay munition for weapons and have to worth building over riflemen who are better than conscripts.
As I have explained default weapons should follow weapon profiles and not stretched to fit units. If a unit is designed for mid range, it needs a mid range weapon and not a smg.
Finally keep in mind that Thompson is a weapon upgrade, not default weapon and has to justify cost.
Your suggestion is far from a no-brainer.
30 Jul 2018, 13:47 PM
#40
Posts: 573
If you need a mid range DPS unit I suggest you use Penals.
Comparing Soviet units and USF units is misleading since the factions are differently designed. In addition Paras/Ranger are CP 3/ have to pay munition for weapons and have to worth building over riflemen who are better than conscripts.
As I have explained default weapons should follow weapon profiles and not stretched to fit units. If a unit is designed for mid range, it needs a mid range weapon and not a smg.
Finally keep in mind that Thompson is a weapon upgrade, not default weapon and has to justify cost.
Your suggestion is far from a no-brainer.
PPSh can be a weapon upgrade too, default Paras and Rangers also get mid-range battle rifles as default.
Factional differences are another thing that works in Shocks buff favor. Shocks dont synergize well with their faction, only one commander has PPShCon/Shock combo and normal Cons are pretty bad support unit for Shocks unlike riflemen who are great at mid/close range
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