PSA: USF mortar almost quite there

TL;DR: USF mortar Autofire is now legit. USF mortar barrage needs some ironing out. Vet1 and Vet3 are a bit different.

I just ran a difference check between the OST mortar and the USF mortar. There are a lot of differences that are to USF mortar's favour. Some bugs exist (which might cripple USF mortar's performance).

The differences between the two mortars are the following:

(+) Vet1: USF mortar receives -20% scatter on all attacks (instead of useless counter-barrage)

This is significant bonus, and is exactly enough to offset the penalties of firing into the fog-of-war.

Since this is an area, you can say that the OST mortar will be ~50% more inaccurate than the USF mortar starting from Vet1.

(+) Barrage: USF mortar fires a lot faster

The two mortars have different wind-up and wind-down times (1.5 for USF vs 2 for OST, for each). What this means, is while the two mortars are barraging, their reload rate will be:

- USF: 3.125 secs per shell
- OST: 4.125 secs per shell

(The USF mortar will also start firing 0.5 secs faster due to wind-up).

(+) Vet3: USF mortar receives scatter bonuses on all attacks (instead of only autofire)

Similar story to Vet1. That USF mortar turbo-barrage will really, really hurt.

(-) Max scatter cap too high for USF mortar barrage weapon

Max scatter for barrage should be 6.4 instead of 8, so that scatter caps at range 80.

Currently this makes no difference because the mortar cannot barrage past range 80, anyway.

Moreover, the Vet1 and Vet3 scatter bonuses to the barrage will be more than enough to cancel this (OST mortar barrage scatter doesn't benefit from Vet). I am only listing this here in case Relic decides to fix USF scatter veterancy.

(-) USF barrage weapon has 20 penetration instead of 35

This one is completely random. Should be 35, like all other mortar weapons.

(-) USF Mortar crew are easier to hit on retreat

OST Crew received accuracy on retreat: -60%
USF Crew received accuracy on retreat: -50%

(that means USF crew is +25% more likely to get hit when retreat)

(-) Bug: USF mortar abilities do not benefit from +33% increased range at Vet3

Show Spoiler

the USF mortar barrage first faster in exchange for being less accurate.

At this point I'm not sure if it's worth it to keep shoving the mortar team into the USF. Their early game is strong enough without the mortar.

USF mortar is still over performing! it shoots like a canon, cool down time is 0, yeah its balanced!!!!

Keep the discussion civilised, the last thread about the USF mortar was closed.

(-) Bug: USF mortar abilities do not benefit from +33% increased range at Vet3

Don't let the visual range of the barrage ability fool you. If you try to use to barrage/smoke past range 80 at Vet3, your mortar will get stuck doing nothing.

Increased range seems to work fine for me, are you testing with a mod? If yes you probably haven't replicated the lack of change_target in the veterancy.

I still don't see why they needed a mortar at all. The faction wasn't designed with one and wasn't particularly struggling.

Edit: As for where it stands at the minute, I do think the -20% scatter is a bit excessive for a vet 1, especially considering that (in general) units get an ability rather than a flat out stat buff at vet 1.

I wouldn't mind if the vet 1 was switched with a flare ability. USF really doesn't have a method of getting consistent sight. Outside of support commander all their scouting stuff is single pass, and there's no snipers to scout.

I still don't see why they needed a mortar at all. The faction wasn't designed with one and wasn't particularly struggling.

Edit: As for where it stands at the minute, I do think the -20% scatter is a bit excessive for a vet 1, especially considering that (in general) units get an ability rather than a flat out stat buff at vet 1.

It was to break the same old opening every USF player goes through. As one of the USF players I was just hoping for a smoke dispenser which didn't eat munitions if I rely on smoke.

Somehow Relic 'overlooked' the intended stats and turned it into a beast we all know today.

USF right now is basically hacking. Literally cheating

They literally have the best everything. I don't know why it's so hard to turn the stupid mortar into a nerfed Soviet one or mirages original mortar with shit range and glass crew lolz

the USF mortar barrage first faster in exchange for being less accurate.

At this point I'm not sure if it's worth it to keep shoving the mortar team into the USF. Their early game is strong enough without the mortar.

I'd really much rather not go back to "Rifle Rifle Rifle, Nades" every time. It is worth fixing the mortar and nerfing Riflemen to keep the mortar...maybe remaking REs too to give a clearer reason to build them aside from "I think I'm gonna get a buncha Zookas", but that's a pipe dream.

The USF mortar, from your analysis Mr. Smith, is clearly still better than the Ost mortar, in-spite of the fact that it is in a faction with a strong early game. The mortar was originally called for in place of the grenades bundle, which saved you fuel but cost you more MP. It also changed up build orders slightly and allowed at least a modicum of difference in USF start. This is not its current role and it should be brought in line with other units.

Sure, nerf the mortar, but change the cost to 200mp to get in line with OKW mg, since both units are pretty much the same, they have almost no reason to exist and "overperform" in their roles.

Tested a 60mm smoke dispenser. Relic gives US 80mm turbo mortar. Now they are too stubborn to fix the original mistake. The USF should have the weakest mortar in the game it shouldn't even be close to the OST. They already had the pak howie or M8 HMC for strong indirect. They should have given USF assault eng and WC51 to change up the opening build. GG Relic

USF right now is basically hacking. Literally cheating

They literally have the best everything. I don't know why it's so hard to turn the stupid mortar into a nerfed Soviet one or mirages original mortar with shit range and glass crew lolz

Was wondering should i take Ost for a after patch spin... Not anymore....

Seriously... USF had rather unique "mortar" in form of firepit, the thing when righly positioned was a beast against MGs and stationary grens in green cover. Easily makes enough bang for buck before mortar and paks destoy it.
Why couldn those rear echelons have that ability upgradable or toggleable? Like in the first Coh brits had those agains MGs...

It would not be OP and it would force MGs to relocate more often.

Tested a 60mm smoke dispenser. Relic gives US 80mm turbo mortar. Now they are too stubborn to fix the original mistake. The USF should have the weakest mortar in the game it shouldn't even be close to the OST. They already had the pak howie or M8 HMC for strong indirect. They should have given USF assault eng and WC51 to change up the opening build. GG Relic

And you know what the best thing about it all is?

The 61mm mortar is right there. It's spawnable in cheat mod. It's right fucking there, ready for use.

And you know what the best thing about it all is?

The 61mm mortar is right there. It's spawnable in cheat mod. It's right fucking there, ready for use.

You know what's even funnier the 81 mm has the 61 mm description

Allies fanboys pretend usf mortar is okay and balanced! But if it ever happens for axis to have something bugged or unbalanced they would go all the over the forums and cry about it! I really i dont understand how can you say the mortar is performing normal? While the barrage fires 3xtimes faster than ostheer mortar? It fires like a canon non stop? Really? No cool down? And now usf player abuse this more than ever!!!

I'd really much rather not go back to "Rifle Rifle Rifle, Nades" every time. It is worth fixing the mortar and nerfing Riflemen to keep the mortar...maybe remaking REs too to give a clearer reason to build them aside from "I think I'm gonna get a buncha Zookas", but that's a pipe dream.

the amount of nerf necessary for the USF in order to accommdate the mortar would be huge. You will need to nerf the rifleman dps, their smoke, nade, stuart, AAHT, m20. It would basically mean turning the USF into the Soviet.

right now the entire strategy for the wehr is to simply survive until they can get their armor out, even if it's the stug E or the command panzer. the USF mortar basically counter that strategy by killing the Wehr's support weapon.

Even if you manage to retreat the mg42 or pak, the wehr's poor early strength means they can't recover.

does anybody know if relic will fix it?

does anybody know if relic will fix it?

But comrade, they already did...