Look to the new Chart. Germans were slaughtered.

Before the last patch I was around 300 rank 1vs1 with Ostheer with 100 games playing normaly, I'm top150 with USF so I know the game, know strengh and weakness of each faction. Ostheer faction was feeling underwhelming but great sniper was their to balance it. I had no problem with it, same if losing I always understood why, things I did wrong, units not well micro etc...

Since the patch release I have almost only play Ostheer, around 35 games, and probably won at maximum 10 of them - not more.

- OP mortar for the USF killing squads like like no tomorrow, lenght of the game is just a question of chance to not get squads wipe too early. you may have a chance to win if you haven't be too unlucky and can get a tiger out (I'm happy I haven't face the combined arms bug at all)
- Spam Penal/Guards vs Sov. Penals eat Ost infantry and Guard eat Ost medium armor and infantry leaving you with pretty much nothing when T34-85 are hitting the field.
-Spam infantry vs UKF but I have maybe play 2 times in 35 games vs UKF so I'll not comment on it.

I just finished a game facing a guy with less than 100 hours playing Ost vs USF and the difference between skill was laughable, but since he had 2 mortars, was able to wipe some squads, I had to move all the time all my squads while he was just sitting on his fuel. He would have been better, he would have eaten me in 20 minutes. (But I won)

Anyway, for once I completely agree with the OP, at least for Ostheer. Relic can't leave the game like that for the summer, it is not about finding new strats, getting used etc... no, the game is clearly not balanced right now.
Maybe vs USF once the mortar get nerf, the balance will be back but Sov, they really need to look at the combo Penals/Guards definitively too strong.

Before the last patch I was around 300 rank 1vs1 with Ostheer with 100 games playing normaly, I'm top150 with USF so I know the game, know strengh and weakness of each faction. Ostheer faction was feeling underwhelming but great sniper was their to balance it. I had no problem with it, same if losing I always understood why, things I did wrong, units not well micro etc...

Since the patch release I have almost only play Ostheer, around 35 games, and probably won at maximum 10 of them - not more.

- OP mortar for the USF killing squads like like no tomorrow, lenght of the game is just a question of chance to not get squads wipe too early. you may have a chance to win if you haven't be too unlucky and can get a tiger out (I'm happy I haven't face the combined arms bug at all)
- Spam Penal/Guards vs Sov. Penals eat Ost infantry and Guard eat Ost medium armor and infantry leaving you with pretty much nothing when T34-85 are hitting the field.
-Spam infantry vs UKF but I have maybe play 2 times in 35 games vs UKF so I'll not comment on it.

I just finished a game facing a guy with less than 100 hours playing Ost vs USF and the difference between skill was laughable, but since he had 2 mortars, was able to wipe some squads, I had to move all the time all my squads while he was just sitting on his fuel. He would have been better, he would have eaten me in 20 minutes. (But I won)

Anyway, for once I completely agree with the OP, at least for Ostheer. Relic can't leave the game like that for the summer, it is not about finding new strats, getting used etc... no, the game is clearly not balanced right now.
Maybe vs USF once the mortar get nerf, the balance will be back but Sov, they really need to look at the combo Penals/Guards definitively too strong.

I'm somewhat "glad" that it is not only a problem on my end or on my end of the ladder!

Ostheer has more innitial manpower to account for the cost of T1.

Not even close enough to off-set it. And then there's the thing that you are quite a bit more likely to lose Grens than Rifles (squad size and RA bonuses with vet), which forces you to buy new ones in situations where Rifles simply walk away in a more or less still combat ready state.

The problem with the Rifleman Blob lies more with the problem that Riflemen are perfectly fine to bunch up. MG hits them? Smoke! Want more firepower? BARs, they even fire on the move and outdamage anything the enemy can throw at you except at absolutely longest ranges (which then again plays into the fact that your troops are both more mobile and can easily close in with the help of smoke).
Sure, you pay for that, and not too little. But the effect it has is far greater than any MG 42 equipped Gren squad could ever hope to achieve.

That is why you have superior support units. Gren is still only a 240mp/60mu upgrade. Of course they are not suppose to beat 280mp/15fuBARs/60mun/60mun/25fuNADE rifles.
Stay logic.

And that's why USF mortar is OP, it is superior to everything.

These stats contain combined arms abuse and op mortar. so they are as expected.

Emplacements just need to be standardized. Decrewing for some factions and not others is ridiculous. Schwer attack ground might be nice.

After the patch I'm ok with the british emplacements powerlevel. Paying for brace made a bigger difference than I suspected. I think that addressing the super cheap tanks would pretty much fix the simcity > tank spam issue.

I don't like emplacements but with out them the british need redesigning.

The changes to emplacements may be a bit harsh, and if such changes were made, they would need to be discussed with the community first (or tested in a beta). However, I feel the 'campy' nature of emplacements conflicts with the core "mobility and positioning" theme of CoH. (IMO) Emplacements should be used to support your army; a Pak44 should be positioned further back in your forces to support your units via its range; not in the front-lines to be a main 'attack' unit. The same should be said of something like the bofors (or OKW flak); it performs very well against most units, but should only be used to secure flank or key point behind your front-lines (i.e. to prevent a cutoff). Right now, though, the bofors is being used as a front-line unit, often placed on VPs, forward fuel points or other important areas, and is being used to deal a dramatically large amount of damage. This is only possible due to its incredible resilience.

A change to the survivability (and not damage) would result in the desired change; the emplacements being used in a defensive position and used to supplement damage. I only suggest damage changes (such as to the OKW truck) due to some of them over-performing against all types of targets. An emplacement should be good against mainly one type of units, not all types: AT-gun emplacements are great vs. vehicles, mortars are great against static units and structures, but units like the OKW Flak Truck and Bofors are great against anything within range. By removing damage to vehicles, the damage 'triangle' would be much more balanced: AT vs. vehicles, mortars vs. structures and static units, flak vs. infantry.

you're making the emplacement issue a lot more complicated than it really is.

the only emplacement the british "need" is the mortar emplacement. the bofor is entirely optional and mutually exclusive with the AEC.

the 17 pounder is redundant with the 6 pounder and firefly in the british army.

the mortar emplacement is the only emplacement without a mobile alternative, that's it. One type of emplacement.

all this stuff about redesigning the british is ignoring the mobile army they already have and complicating the issue.

The bofors is the only thing with an impact the Brits have in the mid game. AEC is as good as a motorized trash can against infantry. And its supposed advantages over the bofors aren't even always available anyway: like the bofors it can't chase down vehicles anyway due to snares, and unless you leave yourself completely open to infantry by making multiple of them you won't be able to send it away from your army where a bofors would've been anyway because if you send it away your army has no protection against vehicles.

Tanks and Brumbar vs Bofors and Mortars.

PzGrens and flame Pios vs AT gun emp.

PanzerWerfer vs all.


Try watch replays some experienced players and learn this game. Noobs have difficult start, but after some time, you learn the mechanics of the game.

I dont think its really balanced to say that OST has to tech to t4 to deal with t1 and t0 units.

you're making the emplacement issue a lot more complicated than it really is.

the only emplacement the british "need" is the mortar emplacement. the bofor is entirely optional and mutually exclusive with the AEC.

the 17 pounder is redundant with the 6 pounder and firefly in the british army.

the mortar emplacement is the only emplacement without a mobile alternative, that's it. One type of emplacement.

all this stuff about redesigning the british is ignoring the mobile army they already have and complicating the issue.

I think I'm not getting my point across. I think the Bofors is fine as is, but locking down a side of the map needs to push back the time their armour shows up.

I think I'm not getting my point across. I think the Bofors is fine as is, but locking down a side of the map needs to push back the time their armour shows up.

the real problem with the mortar and bofor is how much area they lock down. More specifically, the mortar emplacement hard counter other mortar and the bofor's own suppression barrage add to the firepower.

A mortar emplacement together with a bofor is impervious to most early game assault because you can't barrage it or assault it.

the bofor's own direct fire is decent, but it's only around the level of the okw's flak truck. It's the fact that mortar emplacement and bofor have the range to counter mortar that make it OP.

even the soviet 82mm will kill the okw truck if given the chance.

the real problem with the mortar and bofor is how much area they lock down. More specifically, the mortar emplacement hard counter other mortar and the bofor's own suppression barrage add to the firepower.

A mortar emplacement together with a bofor is impervious to most early game assault because you can't barrage it or assault it.

the bofor's own direct fire is decent, but it's only around the level of the okw's flak truck. It's the fact that mortar emplacement and bofor have the range to counter mortar that make it OP.

even the soviet 82mm will kill the okw truck if given the chance.

The mortar emplacement doesn't counter other mortars, it gets countered by them as it can't move and sappers get wiped from repairing under fire. Put two next to a halftrack, that's roughly equal to the manpower cost of a mortar pit + squad inside, and then bomb it until it's down. Fun fact, if you add a pak to that you can attack ground the bofors and reinforce the losses you take from the barrage to destroy both emplacements simultaneously. Then when his emplacements are both destroyed, you have units you wanted to get anyway and he has just lost ~800 manpower.

The mortar emplacement doesn't counter other mortars, it gets countered by them as it can't move and sappers get wiped from repairing under fire. Put two next to a halftrack, that's roughly equal to the manpower cost of a mortar pit + squad inside, and then bomb it until it's down. Fun fact, if you add a pak to that you can attack ground the bofors and reinforce the losses you take from the barrage to destroy both emplacements simultaneously. Then when his emplacements are both destroyed, you have units you wanted to get anyway and he has just lost ~800 manpower.

There are very popular and very powerful commanders dedicated to emplacements that completely counter your strategy.

The mortar emplacement doesn't counter other mortars, it gets countered by them as it can't move and sappers get wiped from repairing under fire. Put two next to a halftrack, that's roughly equal to the manpower cost of a mortar pit + squad inside, and then bomb it until it's down. Fun fact, if you add a pak to that you can attack ground the bofors and reinforce the losses you take from the barrage to destroy both emplacements simultaneously. Then when his emplacements are both destroyed, you have units you wanted to get anyway and he has just lost ~800 manpower.

Hmm.. I don't recall that pinned mortar shoots at all and if they aren't pinned the manpower bleed when they do that thing you wrote is enormous. Maybe just give a slight push with Infantry sections next time to fall the card tower down.

Or did you mean that brit only has 1 mpit, 1 bofors and 1 sappers? then the brit have lost the game long before that spot.

The mortar emplacement doesn't counter other mortars, it gets countered by them as it can't move and sappers get wiped from repairing under fire. Put two next to a halftrack, that's roughly equal to the manpower cost of a mortar pit + squad inside, and then bomb it until it's down. Fun fact, if you add a pak to that you can attack ground the bofors and reinforce the losses you take from the barrage to destroy both emplacements simultaneously. Then when his emplacements are both destroyed, you have units you wanted to get anyway and he has just lost ~800 manpower.

I've hear this so many times and it's just so wrong. It doesn't work and this misinformation makes people more frustrated. To beat a cluster of emplacements you need your entire army dedicated to rooting it out. 1-2 mortars, pak, light vehicles, fire and grenades. You have to force the brace and then run everything you have available in there and once brace is over focus fire.

Once two bofors are in you need tanks to get it out.

Good job OP (And subsequent people using the weekly charts as proof) for failing to take into account the skewer that USF combined arms may have caused to the win rates of axis factions.

More time is needed to really see the impact of the patch on the game.

Good job OP (And subsequent people using the weekly charts as proof) for failing to take into account the skewer that USF combined arms may have caused to the win rates of axis factions.

More time is needed to really see the impact of the patch on the game.

The chart was always handy when it came to show axis dominance immediatly after every balance update which brought us to this point. I argued before that the chart is useless because top 200 micro is well beyond anyone that usually posts here and is not representative of the whole community. The more interesting stats to me are playernumbers which are droping rapidly since March.
Now we have overperforming allied infantry into overperforming allied tanks while both axis factions STILL have not a single unit with any shockvalue (maybe luchs but one rarely has to mapcontrol for that).

I think what we are looking at is ELO ratings falling back in line with player skill. Not only were volks a tank in their own right but a lot of their vet allowed them to play poorly.

Now the USF mortar may come a little early and we still have yet to confirm that its bugged or not but by no means is it "game breaking". UKF is actually rather weak, its lack of a mid game still cause it to fall apart, lack of indirect fire outside of mortar.

T-34 is fine, its cost effectiveness only comes from counter inf play, its pen is lacking, its accuracy is lacking, and hits speed is lacking. The Pshrek is still a strong deterrence, its not on every unit meaning you should HAVE to use combined arms like everyone else (sorry OKW fans). OSt brummbar is in a way better position, the tech price changes are very helpful and help that late game anti infantry capabilities.



Give it more time to avg out but I guess we'll lose all the fanboiis due to balanced nature of this game before DOW III hits.

I'm not a huge fan of the chart for analyzing balance - I think tournament results are probably a better gauge - but it probably does say something when Allies are doing much better than Axis in 1v1 and in anything with arranged teams.

I think what we are looking at is ELO ratings falling back in line with player skill. Not only were volks a tank in their own right but a lot of their vet allowed them to play poorly.

So according to you okw players are some sort of subspecies. And this delusion probably makes you feel like a real hero of a player, but it's just plain wrong. Did you by any chance catch the 2v2 tournament post patch where allies wiped the floor with axis across the board?