USF Blobs

I don't know if this would be a good fix, but can't they just make it so vehicles/weapon teams don't give negative zeal? And so that negative zeal would only trigger once a third squad gets close (something something two's company, three's a blob)?

Like for example: a lone rifle squad. another rifle squad comes close, no debuffs given. a third rifle squad comse close, a debuff goes out to all squads - "+20% received accuracy, -20% accuracy". a fourth rifle squad comes, the debuff is increased "+35% received accuracy, -35% accuracy" for all squads. the debuff stays until there are no more than two squads close together.

Or is this just not a possibility for CoH2 engine?

They could definitely make it so vehicles and support weapons don't provide an aura - that should be as simple as simply not assigning the aura to the specific unit. Receiving the aura would be a bit trickier - preventing vehicles from receiving it would be easy, as many auras already do that (arty officer, landing officer ability, etc.). Preventing crews from reviving the aura might be a bit trickier, since (iirc) they're still infantry. It might be possible since the USF "on me" is essentially an aura that only effects non-crew infantry, but I really don't know the specifics on that.

Getting the debuff to apply only when there's MORE than 2 squads would be quite tricky, since there's nothing in the game that works in that manner. What could be done is have each squad provide a non-stacking positive (and non-self) aura as well as the stacking negative aura. Essentially, when only 2 squads are around, the positive aura would cancel out the negative aura, resulting in no change. However, with 3 squads, the positive aura would only cancel out one negative aura, leaving the balance at "-1".

This is of course an incredibly messy way of doing things (I'm sure every programmer would be screaming), but it would work (I think...).

I think that might be possible. A fusion of that and the in-cover exemption Doomlord proposed would work fairly well. The exact nature of the debuff is up for debate of course (reload time for AT blobs?).

The exact nature of the debuff would be quite tricky. An increase in received accuracy would make blobs less resilient against other infantry, but it would result in mortars (or any other AOE) being insanely effective. This might seem like the desired effect (blob = mortars become incredible), but it would mean that map choke-points would become incredibly risky: the central VP on "Trois Ponts" would become almost impossible to re-take, since there's no green cover, and a single squad would almost never last long enough to capture it.

A reload speed debuff could work, but it doesn't really prevent blobs from being incredibly powerful. Even with a -50% reload speed (way too high), a group of 4-5 shrek volks (last patch) would still insta-wipe a Sherman - they'd just need more time to do it again. For anti-infantry, it could work though.

Personally, I think the best choice would be a combination of an accuracy nerf and possibly a received suppression increase. This would mean hand-held AT would be less powerful in blobs (large volleys would likely miss a lot) and infantry weapons would have a much lower DPS. In addition, suppression usage (i.e. the counter to blobs) would be more effective, resulting in an increased incentive to properly micro and flank. However, with this debuff, surviveability wouldn't really be changed - unfortunate choke-point ambushes wouldn't wipe large (unintentional) blobs, and mortars wouldn't make central VPs uncappable.


If I knew how to make such mechanics changes, I'd make a test-mod (might look into it anyway).

I think you have a point, and that was a mechanic I was not aware of beforehand.

Rifles and LMGs have the "focus_fire" property on, which I assume is what turns singular LMGs into death-ray-laz0r beams.

However, SMGs/assault rifles don't have this property on. This is probably why, even though the affected units deal a ton of DPS, they don't immediately snipe models. I have no idea, however, how the damage is spread (do they affect multiple targets within the same burst or not).

Will see.

LMGs still spread the damage across units, probably through scatter.

Now that I think about scatter, the test favoured the StGs because misses could have been scatter hits because of the volume of units. The test would probably have to have the volks engage one unit at a time.

How exactly does scatter work?

The portable version of the MG42/34 is much deadlier m1919 1v1, while the M1919/bren first depletes HP before killing, MG42/34 has this nasty tendency of random snipes at full HP. Like seriously i don't think i've seen a m1919 kill a model off in the first burst unless it was low HP to begin with, yet this is very frequent with portable MG42/34.

Not to mention that seemingly all germans soldiers are Rambos and can fire it from the hip all day long, while allied plebs need to lie prone.

Does three rangers count as a blob?

Another whine thread folks, move along nothing to see here.

Remember the millions of whine threads about the volk-schreck blob? It's time for the axis to whine . Prepare your anus b*tch, because the fanboys are coming.

Remember the millions of whine threads about the volk-schreck blob? It's time for the axis to whine . Prepare your anus b*tch.

just to quote that

LMGs still spread the damage across units, probably through scatter.

Now that I think about scatter, the test favoured the StGs because misses could have been scatter hits because of the volume of units. The test would probably have to have the volks engage one unit at a time.

How exactly does scatter work?

i am almost certainly sure scatter does not work like that in INF small arms combat. it's only hit or miss - small arms bullets do not have projectiles like tank/arty shells. 99% sure.

i am almost certainly sure scatter does not work like that in INF small arms combat. it's only hit or miss - small arms bullets do not have projectiles like tank/arty shells. 99% sure.

You can be 100% sure now.
For inf small arms combat it always is and was hit or miss.

Incremental accuracy is the closest to "scatter hits" there is.

This problem just got worse with the introduction of the M1.. The mg placements just gets bombed out by mortars, sometimes even before it can pin the blob. The pack howi had lesser problems cause blobbers tend to not go for it but captain and stuarts.

Building USF around the mobile DPS of their base infantry unit, it's ability to upgrade to weapons and pop smoke, and rapid teching with fast utility vehicles pretty much killed any chance at balance because both Axis factions are ridiculously one dimensional. Like USF now is so absurdly OP it's mildly ridiculous, there are exactly two viable Ost opening builds (sniper and grennn spaaammmm) into a desperation 222, with a MA Stug thrown in to keep you on life support.

Against OKW the USF is literally forced to blob because playing wide past 4 minutes means the OKW can cluster his guys together and force retreats while capping; and when USF goes tight against OKW pre-Shwerer, the OKW gets raped by the mortar, buffed .50 cal that soft counters their vehicles, rifle blob, and Stuart/M20.

Against OKW the USF is literally forced to blob because playing wide past 4 minutes means the OKW can cluster his guys together and force retreats while capping; and when USF goes tight against OKW pre-Shwerer, the OKW gets raped by the mortar, buffed .50 cal that soft counters their vehicles, rifle blob, and Stuart/M20.

I'm sorry, which OKW vehicles get soft countered by .50 cal except kubel?

I generally agree with other points though.

I'm sorry, which OKW vehicles get soft countered by .50 cal except kubel?

I generally agree with other points though.

Ive read it does quite a bit dmg against Puma ans Co.

Ive read it does quite a bit dmg against Puma ans Co.

Yeah, its as dangerous to Puma as AP DSHK is, but against luchs, it would need to be garrisoned to be any threat.

I'm sorry, which OKW vehicles get soft countered by .50 cal except kubel?

Have you played with the new .50 cal? It pretty much mauls light vehicles.

I really don't like ultimate USF blob.

If you don't habe werfer - good luck dealing with that.

Something has to be done about 4 rifles with double BARs becasue they are too easy to use.

Have you played with the new .50 cal? It pretty much mauls light vehicles.

Dunno, Luchs was quite unimpressed by .50 cal with AP ammo.

Dunno, Luchs was quite unimpressed by .50 cal with AP ammo.

On the other hand it sees quite nicely to 222's

i am almost certainly sure scatter does not work like that in INF small arms combat. it's only hit or miss - small arms bullets do not have projectiles like tank/arty shells. 99% sure.

You can be 100% sure now.
For inf small arms combat it always is and was hit or miss.

Incremental accuracy is the closest to "scatter hits" there is.

A bit old and might not be updated:

Burst small arms and focus_fire: false

HMGs and a select number of other small arms have focus_fire: false. What this option does is effectively give every bullet two chances to hit, once as normal and if that one misses then it will check the scatter area for another target and try another hit roll. This is effectively extra damage (and suppression for HMGs) spread over random targets next to whatever you're firing at. You can see this effect with the Kubel pretty easily as it often leaves squads with a lot of models but low health due to on average firing 1.8 bullets at random targets for every 1 that hits the model it's firing on.


Small arms with focus_fire: false:
BAR
Grease Gun
hmg42
mp40
mp44
ppsh
Maxim
DSHK
hmg34
fg42
kubel
OKW mp44

Let me make this clear: I am a Soviet player.

Speaking from VERY personal experience, I can feel the rage and anger of having a tank, skillfully maneuvered, be destroyed in one or two volleys of shoulder-mounted rockets. OKW losing the blob was a big step in improving the game.

But the USF blob is just disgusting. The irony is that by providing a platform for combined arms, many USF players have resorted to blobbing. Yes there are counters, but the blobbing must be terminated at the source.

I say only 1 bazooka per rifle squad (or 2 for rear echelons). By allowing 2 bazookas for rear echelons (which are weak so they cannot just charge blindly) blobbing will be discouraged. Rifle squads with 1 zook cannot pick up another weapon.

On the other hand it sees quite nicely to 222's

But 222 isn't really OKW vehicle...