Bofors

@johnk419, stop talking out of your rear, bofors pens both p4 and panthers frontal Armour and from my experience, emplacements is far worse then OKW buildings, ISG's and motors. The only issue with these emplacements is on small maps or in team games where they just get spammed.

Just tested it.

P4 does get penetrated but slowly. The P4 still wins every time with a little over half health.

Panther on the other hand is almost completely invulnerable and the bofors could only take off a sliver of health before dying.

The flak HQ however was able to kill the t-34, sherman, and cromwells about 50% of the time give or take, so the OKW buildings are superior when it comes to AT.

In AI too given it has further range, pinning, and a ton more health. so the only advantage the bofors has over the flak HQ is it's barrage and brace abilities.

Just tested it.

P4 does get penetrated but slowly. The P4 still wins every time with a little over half health.

Panther on the other hand is almost completely invulnerable and the bofors could only take off a sliver of health before dying.

The flak HQ however was able to kill the t-34, sherman, and cromwells about 50% of the time give or take, so the OKW buildings are superior when it comes to AT.

In AI too given it has further range, pinning, and a ton more health. so the only advantage the bofors has over the flak HQ is it's barrage and brace abilities.

See this?

Do you guys even play the game before you start crying something is overpowered? If emplacements are so OP, I would gladly take a mobile ISG than an overpriced stationary mortar pit any day. Brits are in need of a buff, not a nerf. ISG spam + flak truck is borderline impossible to deal with as the British, you have shrecks which completely annihilate any sort of early armor, (which is now replaced with faust ability which is still just as bad) and OKW even has a non-doctrinal Stuka which completely annihilates fortifications.

OKW has the upper hand in pretty much every stage of the game against UKF.

Early game : Sturmpioneers are a T0 unit that completely destroy any infantry, they're stronger than royal engineers which come at T2 for Brits. They fire on the move so it's not as easy trying to fight them from range (they shoot at you while you try to run away, especially when there's a volks with the sturmpio)

Early-mid game : Even if Brits somehow push out OKW despite OKW's far superior early infantry, setting up a Bofors is difficult, engineers take exponentially more damage when building, plus ISGs hit the field the same time a Bofors can be built. By the time a Bofors is finished, you'd have ISG's already bombarding it before the British can even build a mortar emplacement, and by the time a mortar emplacement is finished it'd be already too late.

Mid game : Brits lack any sort of reliable AT, OKW have shrecks which can destroy the heaviest of Allied vehicles while Brits have PIATs, and no AT grenade. What does this mean? Flame half tracks practically run rampant, the lack of AT grenades means you can't disable vehicles like the point and click panzerfaust ability does. Literally all you have to do is move while burning everything to the ground, the PIAT's will never hit.

Late game : Axis heavy tanks. Enough said. Oh, you somehow managed to survive to the late game? Here, have Stuka barrages + ISGs for your emplacements while I sit back with my King Tiger and shreck blobs.

The OKW has multiple opportunities to get back into the game, even if they lose a position. They have ISGs and flame track timings which they can use to destroy British emplacements (bombard with ISG first, when Bofors braces go in with flame track). Do you know what British has when the OKW sets up a flak truck at a strategic point? Nothing. They could build a stationary mortar emplacement for 400mp at a position for the sole purpose of attempting to destroy the flak truck (and will be completely useless afterward even if it manages to destroy the flak truck despite ISGs), or they could build an AT gun which is cannon-fodder for ISGs. After the British loses a strategic position it's GG, they have no way of getting back into the game, and even if they do somehow manage to destroy a dug in OKW they will be too far behind in fuel to get back into the game. Axis tanks will come and annihilate everything.

Bofors seriously needs it's barrage ability replaced or removed with something else. It's ridiculous that by using that ability, a Bofors can counter it's own counter, Mortars.

Though using the Half track for constant reinforce of two Mortars sounds like a great idea.

Bofors is the epitome of shit game design. Some asshole at Relic thought it'd be cute to make Brit gameplay based around asinine structures that countered their own counters and reward dumbasses with low apm and poor decision making who want to camp.

Well, the Bofors is a tricky thing, I play mostly USF but also a fair amount of Wehr and OKW, especially in 2v2, been in the top 100 several times.

As said before, the Bofors arrives a bit early and locks down regions incredibly fast, especially with the Emplacement commander, the player doesn't even need Sappers but they can be build and repaired by IS, which is imo just wrong.

As OKW you can still take them on with ISG, but you will need at least 2, makes a 660MP investment for two guns that are really vulnerable and will most likely get killed throughout the game anyway, but if you manage to force brace plus got some Volks you can close in and burn it down.

As Ost the struggle is real, it feels like they can literally do nothing, Ost falls behind Brits in all stages of the game, except the early game if you get a sniper out, I constantly get the feeling to be rather useless to my OKW team mate in 2v2 games.
The Mortar HT is good, but also costs 40 fuel, the barrages have rather long cooldowns , I found the incendiary to be useful against all emplacements, but still to really counter them you have to get two, that makes 80 fuel and about 600MP again, the normal mortar is utterly useless against Brits due to reasons already mentioned.
Paks will get destroyed by mortars or Bofors barrage even if you use attack ground and are out of range.

I think Bofors should probably cost more MP, 400 seems a good price, plus Brace should not nullify damage completely.

The Bofors is as much bad game design as the FlakHQ, even though I think the FHQ is actually easier to take down with normal means and even without tanks.

Now you know how annoying the OKW flak building is, hypocrites

Brace working for only Artillery (which is extremely rare Early-Mid game) and Explosives (Even more Rare)? Wouldn't that be, in otherwords, pointless?

How's it useless when it allows to tank the damage of its own counters at that point in the game (Leig/mortars *explosivedamage). While also scaling formidably into lategame.

Do you consider acceptable that the bofors counters everything before t3/4 not only through stats but also its own counters with the barrage / brace combo then?

If this was to be done, two things need to be taken into consideration:

1) The Bofors is the only form of reliable AT Brits get early apart from the AEC (the faction's ONLY non-doctrinal Snare). Picking Bofors locks out the AEC. If Brace has no defensive applications, you will need to provide an equally effective AT Solution for the point it hits.

If you're relying on the bofors as your AT source that just says about the overperformance of the emplacement, all other armies have to actually build AT to have AT.

What are the issues about the 6 pdr and piats? i get the piats can be somewhat hit or miss but theyre still very dagerous and deter enemy armor, specially with the 6pdr around.

If the Balance patch hits as is, this is going to be twice as bad, with OKW having all its multitude of T0 AT Options invalidating Light/Medium/Heavy Vehicle play.

I Agree with this, faust/ shreck combo will be deadly. They shoulndt be stackable. This wont affect emplacements much though. Just the same as now.

2) Losing Brace would mean British Emplacements would vaporise fast. They would need a Health increase/Armour increase to compensate for this.

Like i said , you arent losing brace, but now it has a window of weakness, instead of just being outright invulnerable, youd have to think about bracing instead of just doing it with no risk involved.

I can´t believe people are still defending brace. SolidSteel was on point. It is a get out of jail free card. No skill involved. Invincibility when you got caught with your pants down.

The only thing im asking its not for a nerf or removal, it will still be there and be usefull to prevent emplacements to be nuked from the map, but it will at least require some though before using, instead of #360noscopedinvulnerabilityoutplayed with 0 risk or cost involved.

The OKW flak 2cm has none of the weaknesses associated with the Bofors.

I am speechless.

Brace already has a weakness in the form of it's cool down. If you have multiple indirect fire units you can force a brave at a bad time and then nuke it during its cool down. Hitting brace is actually already risky against opponents who know what they're doing. If someone is plinking away at an emplacement with 1 mortar then brace is a no-risk move.

I am speechless.

Selective reading and taking things out of context for the win!

I am not saying it does not need a buff. It certainly needs a buff. I have requested this multiple times and even made a thread about it in the past.

However, it can never be a unit that rival the Bofors.

I don't know how the comparison between the OKW flak truck and the Bofors is coming up. If you get caught building a Bofors, I’m pretty sure you don’t lose your entire resource investment. When you lose a Bofors you don’t lose your t4 and all your medium tanks. You can’t build more then one Flak Truck. And the synergy between the Bofors and the other brit units is much greater than the Flak truck and it’s units.

I don't know how the comparison between the OKW flak truck and the Bofors is coming up. If you get caught building a Bofors, I’m pretty sure you don’t lose your entire resource investment. When you lose a Bofors you don’t lose your t4 and all your medium tanks. You can’t build more then one Flak Truck. And the synergy between the Bofors and the other brit units is much greater than the Flak truck and it’s units.

+ The FlaK truck doesn't counter artillery.

You stop talking out of your rear, the bofors cannot penetrate P4 and Panther's frontal armor. Go test it out yourself. It might have less than 5% chance of penning, which is nowhere near reliable enough to be considered a threat. It would take like 5 minutes for a bofors to kill a P4 if the bofors were to be invincible.

Clearly you don't know how penetration works in this game. Just because the pen value is lower than the armour of the p4 doesn't mean it doesn't penetrate. The penetration of bofor is 25, frontal armour of p4 is 180, so statistically it will penetrate 1 in every roughly 7 shots. That might sound like a small amount, but it fires quite rapidly.

I just tested on cheatmod. Most of the time the bofors dies first but leaves p4 with only a sliver of health. Other times p4 dies first as main gun is destroyed before it is killed.

Basically what you said is a bunch of hooey.

Who uses the OKW flak truck as a front line unit to defend VPs?

Also, the Flak HQ cannot be set up inside a VP sector. And it costs a wee bit more than a bofors.

Biggest issue with Bofors (usually with accompanying mortar pit) is that they effectively lock down 1-2 VPs and usually a lion's share of the map's resource/cutoffs.

Losing the Flak HQ can ruin an OKW player. Losing a Bofors? By the time that's accomplished it's mostly just freeing up pop cap for cromwells and comets.

The barrage ability doesn't counter ISG's at max range. I just tested it.

Furthermore, the fact that the British relies so heavily on emplacements means the Bofors cannot be nerfed. Nerfing the Bofors would require a complete overhaul of the British. I would gladly take ISG's, better infantry AT than PIATs, and start with 5 man infantry sections without having to spend 35 fuel.

As I explained in my previous post (judging by the fact nobody has directly replied to it you have no counter-arguments against it) OKW has the advantage in all stages of the game. UKF Bofors is perhaps the only timing UKF has, and nerfing it would completely neuter the faction completely.

Clearly you don't know how penetration works in this game. Just because the pen value is lower than the armour of the p4 doesn't mean it doesn't penetrate. The penetration of bofor is 25, frontal armour of p4 is 180, so statistically it will penetrate 1 in every roughly 7 shots. That might sound like a small amount, but it fires quite rapidly.

I just tested on cheatmod. Most of the time the bofors dies first but leaves p4 with only a sliver of health. Other times p4 dies first as main gun is destroyed before it is killed.

Basically what you said is a bunch of hooey.

ROFL

First, I know how penetration works in this game, and second, don't lie. I tested Bofors vs P4 dozens of times and every time the P4 has won with over half health. This is also assuming the battle is completely a 1v1 fight, no ISG's or shrecks. I have never ever played a game where a Bofors was ever a threat to Axis armor. Meanwhile, the Flak truck penetrates most Allied tanks consistently and half the time even wins the battle.

ROFL

First, I know how penetration works in this game, and second, don't lie. I tested Bofors vs P4 dozens of times and every time the P4 has won with over half health. This is also assuming the battle is completely a 1v1 fight, no ISG's or shrecks. I have never ever played a game where a Bofors was ever a threat to Axis armor. Meanwhile, the Flak truck penetrates most Allied tanks consistently and half the time even wins the battle.

Perhaps you tried the OKW p4 which has more armour?... The ostheer one has 180 armour and it is a toss up which dies first.

Try it. All ranges.

Perhaps you tried the OKW p4 which has more armour?... The ostheer one has 180 armour and it is a toss up which dies first.

Try it. All ranges.

Yes, considering the fact I am comparing UKF to OKWs naturally I would be talking about OKW P4s. Regardless of if it's Ostheer or not you should not be losing an Axis tank to a Bofors more than an Allied tank being lost to a Flak truck. I don't even know why this is a complaint to begin with. Bofors barrage ability? That's something to complain about. Bofors vs Axis armor? No.

The amount of over-exaggeration in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.

First of all, Bofors CANNOT penetrate P4s and Panthers from the front. You're probably not paying attention to an AT gun or a PIAT, as it's not the bofors doing the damage.

Second, mortar/ISG spam + flak truck/MGs is harder to deal with for the British than it is for OKW to deal with bofors and mortar emplacements. While ISGs and mortars can move (you can even reinforce them with a half track which you will inevitably buy for the flame upgrade) mortar emplacements can't and you're GUARANTEED to hit the mortar emplacement because it's a building and its hitbox is so large. Not to mention, mortar emplacements have god awful accuracy in return for firing two at a time, so a well-micro'ed mortar/ISG pair is much much more efficient than the mortar emplacement.

I don't think you guys realize the emplacement costs a whopping 400mp to build. If you invested the same amount in ISG/mortar you can easily counter emplacements. Furthermore, brace isn't an overpowered ability, when you use it your buildings do not function, and you cannot cancel it either. Literally all you have to do is build 2 mortars, bombard the bofors, when the bofors braces, send in your flame half track and destroy it.

Finally, emplacements, once they're gone, they're gone forever. Mortars and ISG you can recrew. Bofors costs 280mp + 30 fuel, with the mortar emplacement costing 400mp, once you break the bofors it's pretty much GG for the British player.

This!,if the brit player make a bofors and mortar pit and you destroy it thats GG.