Profile of johnk419

I love churchills.

You realize people aren't disputing what it takes to beat them. It's not like that's a mystery. It's more about micro and the kind of field presence it creates, and for how long.

Honestly, my particular concern is that too much weight is put on commander choice when dealing with them, especially for Ostheer. Ever since the LeFH got buffed I've kept a commander with it in the lineup. Beats emplacements no sweat. But it isn't the most enjoyable experience playing the stalling game to 8 CPs.

It seems like it is a mystery, because everyone keeps claiming how it is micro intensive to beat a Bofors + Mortar as if it takes so much micro for you to deal with it. You do NOT need a LeFH to deal with emplacements, you're doing it wrong if you're choosing your commander completely based upon if you're playing a against a British or not.

I have replied to you already on how to beat a Bofors a page or two back in this thread. You didn't reply to me back then either. So I will reiterate it for you.

The total cost in fuel in order to build a Bofors is 75. You need a platoon command post, research Bofors, and finally build the Bofors. The total cost in fuel in order to get the tech to build German mortars is 10. You can literally build your tech for it as soon as the game starts and have a mortar out in the first minute of the game. The British do not have access to mortars until T2, on top of it costing 400mp. It's obvious an Ostheer player against the British has a huge advantage in the early game, yes?

Despite Germans having an advantage in the early game, somehow the British manages to set up a Bofors and Mortar emplacement at a strategic position without any interference by the German player (you've already screwed up once at this point). A mortar team should be one of the first units you should buy after an MG, so when you do get pushed back, buy a second mortar team. Emplacements can't move, so once you know where the Bofors is placed you can bombard the same spot over and over again. Split your two mortars (don't stack them on top of each other like an idiot as I've seen people do), ground fire at where the emplacement is, and when the mortar emplacement shoots back you can either choose to move, or keep firing (since it takes quite a few shots to get it killed due to the lack of accuracy of the emplacement unless you're extremely unlucky). Regardless of if you choose to move or not, your other mortar team will still be firing.

This is glossing over the fact that a British player usually builds a Bofors first (building a mortar emplacement first leaves it open to shrecks and scout cars/half tracks destroying it), and building a Bofors first means that Bofors is open to free mortar fire until the British gets 400mp to build a mortar emplacement. That is more than enough time to kill the Bofors with two mortars before a mortar emplacement is set up.

If you STILL somehow manage not to break the emplacements until they build a sim city, you pretty much deserve the loss, but even then you have a chance to win. Flank around with your units to cut off the British supply chain, or in the case of team games, stack a different side of the map and help your team. Once you get to the late game, you have access to panzerwerfers, on top of heavy tanks, and the fact that 90% of Ostheer commanders have some sort of artillery/bombing ability.

In comparison, do you know what happens to the British when they lose a strategic point? They have to set up their emplacements at a disadvantageous position for the sole purpose of trying to break the enemy position, and end up being useless afterward even if they manage to even break the German position. The British has NO other form of artillery/mortar other than an infantry section flare (which they take an hour to call in) or a Sexton which is doctrinal.

British emplacements don't require micro? Don't kid yourself. Do you honestly think the British player sits there doing nothing while your mortars bombard their emplacements? No, they actively use ground fire on your mortars (despite what people think, counter-battery reacts too slowly to be of any use, it's the player). And what are you doing while the British hold their emplacements? Is it so micro-intensive to ground fire with your mortars and issue a right click once in a while?

1) In return for firing 2 rounds at a time it's very inaccurate. but can wipe out a 3 men squad in one shot

Wow that must be some luck, I've never had my emplacement ever wipe a mortar squad in one shot.

2) Its hitbox is extremely large meaning enemy mortars never miss. Its health pool really isn't that large (when you consider the fact all your mortars hit the target), and bracing the emplacement makes enemy mortar useless while taking repair for free.

Yeah and those engineers must be invincible while those mortars bombard the emplacement for free, right?

3) It can't move but has a huge range

It has the same range as an ISG, which is just slightly more or equal to a German mortar.

4) It can't be recrewed. Once it's gone it's 400mp down the drain, just like loosing a tank

Except it's not a tank, it's a mortar. German mortars can be recrewed. British mortars cannot. Where does a tank fit into this conversation?

5) It can be reinforced and left alone with a bofor and at gun.

It can't be "left alone" with two mortars firing at it, and no, it can't be reinforced. You know what I meant when I said reinforced. You can build a bunker and literally reinforce while getting shot at while the emplacement has to be repaired, which is impossible with two mortars firing at it.

which game mode?

All game modes. Whether it's 4v4 or 1v1 German mortars hit the field literally in the first minute of the game while Bofors comes much much later in comparison. In fact you can get Panzergrenadiers before a Bofors can be built.

Move your mortar when you hear the BOFORs start its barrage.

Honestly I can't comment on Counter Battery, because I've never actually had someone use it against me, have never used it, and my AT partner that is really heavy into the Emplacement Doctrine insists that it doesn't even work. He says he's never noticed it do anything, though he also isn't the most astute of players.

I assume that Counter Battery has some foreshadowing of its bombardment? Smoke, or artillery noises? That it costs munitions, at least? I don't know.

I normally beat emplacement brits within ten minutes so I really can't say.

You're right. Counter battery doesn't do anything. The only time counter battery was ever useful was to use it for the base howitzers, and even then it's so inaccurate it's not worth spending the munitions that it costs now.

People automatically assume it's counter battery but in reality it's the player doing ground fire micro. Counter battery reacts way too slow for it to be any use.

The barrage ability doesn't counter ISG's at max range. I just tested it.

Furthermore, the fact that the British relies so heavily on emplacements means the Bofors cannot be nerfed. Nerfing the Bofors would require a complete overhaul of the British. I would gladly take ISG's, better infantry AT than PIATs, and start with 5 man infantry sections without having to spend 35 fuel.

As I explained in my previous post (judging by the fact nobody has directly replied to it you have no counter-arguments against it) OKW has the advantage in all stages of the game. UKF Bofors is perhaps the only timing UKF has, and nerfing it would completely neuter the faction completely.

Clearly you don't know how penetration works in this game. Just because the pen value is lower than the armour of the p4 doesn't mean it doesn't penetrate. The penetration of bofor is 25, frontal armour of p4 is 180, so statistically it will penetrate 1 in every roughly 7 shots. That might sound like a small amount, but it fires quite rapidly.

I just tested on cheatmod. Most of the time the bofors dies first but leaves p4 with only a sliver of health. Other times p4 dies first as main gun is destroyed before it is killed.

Basically what you said is a bunch of hooey.

ROFL

First, I know how penetration works in this game, and second, don't lie. I tested Bofors vs P4 dozens of times and every time the P4 has won with over half health. This is also assuming the battle is completely a 1v1 fight, no ISG's or shrecks. I have never ever played a game where a Bofors was ever a threat to Axis armor. Meanwhile, the Flak truck penetrates most Allied tanks consistently and half the time even wins the battle.