These OKW HQ nerfs are over the top

The only problem i see is the removal of the shrecks. And can we please not try to clone vCoH

The only problem i see is the removal of the shrecks. And can we please not try to clone vCoH

Can we be able to use medium, light vehicles please? YES FUCK SHRECKS

no no they are not, if anything a lot of them are long over due, get good or get rekt son.

OKW is dumbest faction ever created with shitest design and any changes won't fix them unless completly remade. You removed pazerschreks from volks and give them stg's instead? Fine. Be prepared for 6 volks strat with double/triple pupchen support + Puma/Luchs. What's the point getting additional sturmpio or elite infantry like expensive Obers or Falls if you have cheap, basic infantry with powerful AI upgrade? They could receive somehow buffed MP40's but not StG's. Anyway, RiP Heal building. LeIG isn't real reason to go for it. HT is dead if you have doctrinal MG-42 and nondoctrinal MG-34. And I would like to ask you Miragefla, why you decided to put MG-42 instead? Imo Kubelwagen would be much better instead. And I could point out it more but I don't see the reason for it. To sum up, OKW need rework, not only changing units stats. I would like to see if they back to his old resource system but it's not balance sugestion but my personal wish.
Regards

If you played the mod you would know, but I'll explain somethings if you haven't:

1. Volks are good early to mid game, particularly with the StG 44 timing, but they taper off greatly mid-late game due to their generally lower durability and even with veterancy their firepower isn't amazing compared to vet 2 LMG Obers or vetted Sturms at close-range. Every game I played, they generally needed to be supplemented by support weapons or elite infantry where they are relegated to defense/screening versus vetted Allied infantry and incoming armour.

I had a game versus Tightrope awhile back where the Volks just simply did not cut it versus USF as they would lose in msot engagements unless it was Rifles coming around a corner versus a still squad. Obers on the other hand, once vetted could care less about their terminator veterancy bonuses if a squad decided to peak out of cover and were much better at wiping units. They probably also bled me less as they could trade effectively unlike Volks in the late-game.

*Weapon also do not mean the stats are the same as others of its kind. PG and Sturm StGs are drastically different as are Guard and Conscript Mosins as are Volk and Ober Kar98Ks. The Volk StG is good at mid and retains the Volks DPS at long, but it is worse than an AG MP40 at short.

2.MG-42 was the simplest. I didn't want to remove the Kubel as that takes away an OKW opening which is unique in that it trades scaling for scouting and early map control. It can be changed if needed. Though Kubel should stay non-doc imho and be an interesting point-harrasment/scout unit with some AI power.

3. The current patch changes don't take note of the changes to OKW Battleroup HQ that I did which were a buffed ISG with smoke included to allow for assaults into support weapon heavy areas and improved flak HT while remaining the cheapest of the trucks.

Why not just move healing to t0? If you leave it in battlegroup and make it cost extra its just extremely burdensome. Battlegroup's units are just awful. LeiG is ok, but the flack halftrack is hardcountered by AEC and Stuart, which only come out slightly later than it. Its ok vs SU, but you need to micro it super hard, as it is really easy to lose.

I think the only reason you tech for this is to get healing after you go t2. Now that it is made even more expensive (15 fuel extra is actually a lot seeing your tanks are also very expensive) you have to pay like (75 fuel?) just to get healing.

There are of course spio heals, but they are rubbish because they require vet 1, dont heal to full, and are also super expensive if you use them more than once.

So I think the best solution is to make t1 worthwhile by buffing the units in it and by removing the healing and giving it as an upgrade to t0. But hey, maybe that is not an ideal solution either.

i have to agree that the old okw gave a better feeling, and i personaly dont like the direction where the changes are heading - Homogenization isnt the right way of balancing armies :/

I agree with this, and add:

Taking things away (for example Panzerschrecks) isn't the right way of balancing armies.

StG Volks aren't even going to be good lol, except maybe vs. Soviets. I mean two StGs aren't going to stand up to BARs/1919 Rifles or Bren Tommies. Not even close.

Not saying StGs are bad or that Volks should suddenly be able to stand up to Riflemen with BARs, just pointing out that this upgrade isn't going to be anywhere near as good as people are making it out to be.

will add smt i just remembered - volks had sucky stats cause they had the shrek upgrade with that gone where is the compoensation in combat vet instread of stg upgrade ? one can live with snare + rakaten wall ( that change might make light/ med vehicles obsolete vs okw now )
what i dont like is the fact that okw unit distribution still blows ( schwehrer still got all the panzers ), would love to see some changes there or some sidetech upgrades/ unlocks added, instead we get an ostkw army ......

double post

Only problem that I see is another 100 mp. The fuel is not that big of a problem. For a FHQ which fully functions you've to pay 700 mp. 300 for forward retreat, 200 for the structure, 100 for truck and 100 for medics. The fuelcost for the ability is just justified since other faction also pay fuel for it.

Can we be able to use medium, light vehicles please? YES FUCK SHRECKS

You do realize that this causes huge issues to OKW, yeah? I am not the hugest fan of shreck blobs but I don't think this is the way to address this. maybe remove vet 5 from shhreck squads?

If you played the mod you would know, but I'll explain somethings if you haven't:

1. Volks are good early to mid game, particularly with the StG 44 timing, but they taper off greatly mid-late game due to their generally lower durability and even with veterancy their firepower isn't amazing compared to vet 2 LMG Obers or vetted Sturms at close-range. Every game I played, they generally needed to be supplemented by support weapons or elite infantry where they are relegated to defense/screening versus vetted Allied infantry and incoming armour.

I had a game versus Tightrope awhile back where the Volks just simply did not cut it versus USF as they would lose in msot engagements unless it was Rifles coming around a corner versus a still squad. Obers on the other hand, once vetted could care less about their terminator veterancy bonuses if a squad decided to peak out of cover and were much better at wiping units. They probably also bled me less as they could trade effectively unlike Volks in the late-game.

*Weapon also do not mean the stats are the same as others of its kind. PG and Sturm StGs are drastically different as are Guard and Conscript Mosins as are Volk and Ober Kar98Ks. The Volk StG is good at mid and retains the Volks DPS at long, but it is worse than an AG MP40 at short.

2.MG-42 was the simplest. I didn't want to remove the Kubel as that takes away an OKW opening which is unique in that it trades scaling for scouting and early map control. It can be changed if needed. Though Kubel should stay non-doc imho and be an interesting point-harrasment/scout unit with some AI power.

3. The current patch changes don't take note of the changes to OKW Battleroup HQ that I did which were a buffed ISG with smoke included to allow for assaults into support weapon heavy areas and improved flak HT while remaining the cheapest of the trucks.

Two strums would provide more firepower than 3 sgt 44 volks volks, i think. costs less munis and manpower

I am not the hugest fan of shreck blobs but I don't think this is the way to address this.

That is the best solution there is. Giving it to obers is another alternative.

That is the best solution there is. Giving it to obers is another alternative.

how about getting rid of vet 5. no one will use them on obers

Regarding the panzerschreks on volks, I don't think removing it is a good idea. I think nerfing the range of them as suggested by Brad is the best idea.

mg34 + raketen + STG volks combo is actually very good. just style change. i came to like it.

Agree. At least the original design had some choice and different strategies available. Now they are just inferior Wehrmacht locked to one strategy.

+13

i have to agree that the old okw gave a better feeling, and i personaly dont like the direction where the changes are heading - Homogenization isnt the right way of balancing armies :/

+7

OKW is dumbest faction ever created with shitest design and any changes won't fix them unless completly remade. You removed pazerschreks from volks and give them stg's instead? Fine. Be prepared for 6 volks strat with double/triple pupchen support + Puma/Luchs. What's the point getting additional sturmpio or elite infantry like expensive Obers or Falls if you have cheap, basic infantry with powerful AI upgrade? They could receive somehow buffed MP40's but not StG's. Anyway, RiP Heal building. LeIG isn't real reason to go for it. HT is dead if you have doctrinal MG-42 and nondoctrinal MG-34. And I would like to ask you Miragefla, why you decided to put MG-42 instead? Imo Kubelwagen would be much better instead. And I could point out it more but I don't see the reason for it. To sum up, OKW need rework, not only changing units stats. I would like to see if they back to his old resource system but it's not balance sugestion but my personal wish.
Regards

+24

-snip-

So, from what I took away from this:
- The STG on volks is shit, so there's no reason to buy it.
- MG-42 was thrown in there last minute just to fill up an ability.
- The Med HQ will be pointless.

Regarding the panzerschreks on volks, I don't think removing it is a good idea. I think nerfing the range of them as suggested by Brad is the best idea.

+9001

okw unit unlock cost is absurdly low. 2 luchs before 1 t70.
Similar story with mediums and with most other units

I don' t think messing with things too much is my preferred method. I like the idea of a simple upgrade. Maybe 15 fuel is too high, but it is close to the cost for all other factions. For comparison, 250 MP buys static healing at a Soviet base.

I suspect the price will change slightly but not much.

It's not a matter of cost, rather than timing. Healing gets push a bit too back, specially if you go mechanized. That's why i'm saying that it could be better to push back others thing or increase cost of other tech instead.

Why not just move healing to t0?

This is something I have suggested. A very good solution.
And when/if you buy frp for battlegroup you get medics there too (presuming you paid for the medic unlock)

The med unlock cost would then need to be in line with other factions.

Seems ideal solution and doesn't penalise going mechanized.