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Does anyone know if any changes to the map rotation are incoming? Or is the soonest it will happen likely with the next balance patch? |
Thread: Tanks18 May 2017, 22:44 PM
So many times we see a lonely Panther or Tiger against 3 or 4 Allied tanks (comets, M4Cs, T34/85s, Easy8s, M10s) that it is just not OK. Something is very wrong, specially in 1v1. This is not asymetrical balance, it is simply unbalanced game.
https://youtu.be/qYqgl6rV0gI?t=9090
Plus, allied tanks are good against infantry aswell.
Plus, they´re cheaper, faster and have more ROF.
Plus, allies have way better TDs to hunt tanks down.
Plus, allies have better scouting (to locate tanks).
Plus, allies have better arty units (to destroy Paks that defend theyre tanks).
Plus, allies have better infantry (Penals, Tommis, Riflemen) so they can cap points and have more resources.
I dont know, I think that axis tanks are not better than allies in this game. That is simply a myth.
They dont have better damage, nor ROF, nor armor, and you cannot afford more than one or two of the same.
Honestly in that game if he would have gone Panther instead of Panzer IV first he probably would have done fine.
It is also true that the P IV really struggles against all allied mediums whilst also being less lethal against infantry (this being down to smaller squad sizes) and IMO not really worth a buy as OKW. It is better with Wehr because you can get multiple ones out easier and support it with Stugs.
As OKW its better just saving up for a Panther, seeing its not that much more fuel and can deal with 2 allied mediums quite well. The OKW Panzer IV just seems to come at a really awkward time because its quite expensive. The price also means that allies are most likely to get out a second tank whilst you only have one P IV, at which point it is heavily outmatched. This applies doubly when playing against lend lease.
As wehr you have stugs as other people mentioned, but the timing is not quite as bad as it is with OKW P IV. The tools are definitely there to deal with allied mediums, but I feel as though allies definitely get more of a power spike when mediums come out, which I guess is fair enough because they usually dont have heavier tanks to fall back on. |
Get a Raketenwerfer after you get a SwS and upgrade your Sturmpioneers with a Panzershreck. The Flak HT got good penetration buffs in the last patches and can finish off a damaged T70 without problems. Additionaly it has Smoke from Vet 0 now. But relying purely on your Flak HT for AT and AI is just suicide and bad gameplay.
Yup, can you tell me anywhere were I said that I think the flak HT should counter everything? I said OKW were justified in having an MG because the FHT doesn't perform great and regardless of that they perform different roles.
Now I am saying the FHT isn't fantastic generally, because it gets shut down very easy by almost all allied light vehicles. It loses to mgs in garrisons. It gets shut down super hard by AT guns because it can't play around them (at least it can escape them now because of vet1 smoke) These are the problems with the unit. As I say, in order for the unit to be effective you have to play around it which other light vehicles simply do not need. You need mines on the flanks, and AT gun camping behind it, etc.
Funny thing is, if you move it two conscript squads can basically take it out because it just can't fight back. Its a weird unit, is still in a weird spot now and always has been. The extra pen doesn't help of course if you are moving. The problem with it is that it comes out at an awkward time, is a unit that has to stay stationary and is really squishy, weak to AT guns and weak to light vehicles. Strong against non-AT infantry and sometimes m20s and jeeps.
Btw I would generally recommend against buying schrecks on sturms because you forgo a minesweeper, which is basically suicide against UK and Sov. |
Why do they allow these lies. Fht arrives a lot earlier than oposing light unless you play vs idiot. Aprox. 100fuel difference + other resourses.
Friend, I can assure you there is no 100 fuel difference. For instance, with brits its 30 for t1, plus 15 (I think) for AEC add on plus 60 fuel for AEC. I forget how much the OKW t1 is but if you rush straight for it it probably comes down to 10 - 20 fuel less, which gives it a pretty small window. I don't know about sov because I don't play sov and I don't own Americans but the Stewart and t70 come out pretty quick after, I can tell you that for sure. Anecdotally speaking it comes out at the same time or slightly before the enemy light vehicles.
I also do not play against idiots, because I am a top 50 OKW player. I try to use the unit a lot, but it is just shut down in so many easy ways. It is a lot better now than it ever used to be, but its not great and heavily map dependent.
You just get so much more value out of other units that are so much easier to use. You have to 100% play around it, place mines on its flanks and have a raketenwerfer sitting behind it. Compare that to any other light vehicle or halftrack which just gets so much value by its own.
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Could other factions have non-doctrinal super heavy tank? Of course not cuz assymetrical gameplay blablabla...
Sure, make the KT doctrinal and as easy to get as other non doctrinal heavies. Maybe around the same as the Pershing. That would be pretty swell.
Mgs provide a lot of support for infantry, helping you win engagements and lock down areas of the map. I don't see why that tool should be denied to OKW as opposed to all other factions. Its such a core part of gameplay, and seeing the dedicated suppression platform doesn't work well enough, why shouldnt they get that extra utility?
They already lack smoke too. No reason to gimp them any further. |
volks + 2 mg34 = completely shutdown on some maps.
I don't even know why they put MGs on OKW since they have the flaktrack which is a moving MG with 360 degree arc.
another thing is 10 munis for heal + self heal at vet 3 made the Medic upgrade almost useless, meaning you can get medtruck + retreat and manage to save the fuel for something else.
Because every other faction has a non doctrinal MG. The MG34 is also by far the worst in game. MG34 and FHT also have completely different roles in the game, disregarding the fact that the FHT is also not very good. It comes out at such an awkward time and can't really combat allied light vehicles which are always out about the same time it hits the field. It is also super vulnerable to AT guns because it cannot fire on the move. At least with the vet one smoke change it doesn't just die to them anymore and can actually get away. It also still loses to allied HMGs when the HMG is garrisoned in a house.
Just compare its performance to the US AA HT which can fire on the move, suppress on the move, and do decent damage vs axis light vehicles (infact it beats all of them 1v1 with the exception of the puma). Why do US need an mg when they have this half track one may ask. Why do soviets need dshka when they already have the best spammable mg in the game. |
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I'd say volks are overperforming, but then I also think they are the only thing keeping OKW viable. Their vet and flame nades makes them very strong but if they are nerfed I dont think OKW will be viable because:
- in 1v1 at least their tanks are nothing spectacular
- their elite infantry hits the field late and struggles vs vetted allied infantry
- sturm openings are not viable because they have too much popcap.
OKW I'd say are fairly strong early game, but as was said earlier its map dependent. If they get a bad garrison against them they will struggle pretty hard. Also, they still have the issue of healing when not going battlegroup. Storm healing is ok but its kinda expensive and not really sustainable if you have map control.
That actually makes their early game a lot weaker, because you have the choice of not having a good light vehicle (which is a little better now seeing allied light tanks are nerfed) or clunky and limited healing.
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I don't understand why UKF infantry spaces out quickly and logically while every other faction crams 4-5 models into 1 pixel.
Yeah that's what I can't understand. Or just compare combat engineers and Fallschirmjaeger... |
that is debatable but it is a good point. OKW having to have to commit to a tier to get a healing is a big design idea that impacts the faction immensely. It might be flawed.. i think it would be easy to make a case against it.
but the thing that do not help this argument to go forward, after obvious blaming fanboys, is that this was the case since the beginning. how come this has only come to attention now? it also does not help that people argue OKW healing costs 400mp and 70fu or whatever(truck+setup+upgrade). that means it costed 300mp and 55fu before, which nobody ever argued for...
Two points:
1) Right at the beginning with original OKW design it was fine because the teching system was quite different, so it didn't really matter. Also t2 was pretty much dead, you would always go t1 first. It wasn't and issue then.
2) After the rework: Just because no one complained about it did not mean that it was an issue. It was still incredible annoying to backtech to a useless tier if going t2, just to get healing. The difference between OKW and other factions (like British) is that teching is incidental to healing- ie. you don't tech to t1 to upgrade to healing packs, you tech to t1 because you can't win a game playing only t0. THe only reason you teched as OKW was to get healing, so you are essentially paying a ridiculous price just for this.You also forget that before this patch, you could just get panzerschrecks on volks, so it did not matter that you had no puma. Now you have no puma and you have massive issues countering light vehicles. The problem with that is that you have no healing.
It should also be said that when repair and healing was free it actually increased your flexibility a fair bit. Now you pay 200 MP and 30 fuel to get both, which slows you down. Buying repair is hardly ever worth it because it delays healing even more. Not having healing is actually incredibly crippling to your infantry, because you are basically hoping to lose models to regain health. Otherwise you cannot compete with allied infantry who all have healing available from a much earlier stage.
Basically, it did not matter before because t1 was not as useless because you could counter light vehicles with volks. Backteching was annoying, sure, but it was not as difficult to overcome as it is now. Its just a limitation which is still there because of initial faction design. This has changed so much now to the extent that the limitation is completely arbitrary. There is no good positive reason why healing should be locked behind tech, and I think it is one of the biggest things holding back OKW atm.
Alternatively you could of course buff the units in t1 (so basically the flack halftrack) and change its role maybe to one where it slightly counters light vehicles. The problem is atm that the unit is incredibly fragile and by the time you get it, its counters (AEC and Stuart) are basically out. Its ok against the soviets though because it actually does reasonably well against a t70, although it is quite easy to catch out with at granades. The problem with this approach is that it might make t2 obsolete.
Anyway, I don't see how you can currently argue against this stupid restriction on healing. |
This game is all about trades, one the biggest problems the okw presented to this game and why it earned its spot for most hated faction in game was you didnt have to make those trades.
The only thing the nerfs in recent patches did to the okw, to qoute Ledgers joker "Bring him down (dent) to our level".
Like Katiof said, OKW isnt a "special snowflake" anymore and those who play okw will how to do what the rest of us been doing in the game.
Personally this new volks is a better improvement over all volks because of the increase AI that OKW needs and a snare to prevent mass genocide by a lone brave sherman on rampage American style.
Obers are exactly where they nees to be because hwo potent they are, god help those who face vetted obers
SO ok, why don't we put ambulance behind lieutenant tier? There is literally no good reason why it should be locked behind tech, no other faction has it. What makes it worse is that t1 is useless, and you are completely open to light vehicles, which you cannot counter without a puma, unless you (lol) invest into 2 spios.
I understand why people got annoyed about volksgrenadier schreks, but this healing tech locking is just stupid. Spio healing is also locked behind vet 1, and good luck getting spios to vet 1 without healing. If the damage is spread equally between the models they are useless. They also don't heal properly.
OKW is massively disadvantaged in this way, they always were, but its made much worse by the fact that the upgrades are now purchasable. That is all fine, but don't lock them behind specific techs. Perhaps it should be changed that whenever you tech one of the two becomes available. |
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