Jagdtiger Balance for 3v3+

Any form of heavy art destroy a JT (priest ,suxaton,102ml) even vet 2 pak
They pen every hit and is realllly slow

A great buff to JT counters would be to get Side armor mechanic

But yeah JT is a big problem in team games where he can dish out dmg at a safe position


Maybe buff AP shell on ISU to not bounce every time and we would have a potential counter

But yeah JT is a big problem in team games where he can dish out dmg at a safe position

Where is the problem in this case, in the JT or in the 4vs4 maps?

For example, look at this Tali-Ihantala map and tell me where you can have the JT in a safe position.

Where is the problem in this case, in the JT or in the 4vs4 maps?

Maps, some maps are just created for this tank, it's obvious for me

On open map, you always find a way to get him and nullify his range by making it move.

Corridor maps are cancerous and there is like 80% of the workshop full of this type of map

very expensive,very slow,crew shock on hit,can't fire on move,slow rotation no nerf needed if anything it needs buff move on plz

Jagd is a fun unit to fight. You have to "commit" units to killing it but its always doable. The best way is usually to block it with a tank (which will usually also stun it) and then drop an offmap and GG.

However, I think nerfs have to be creative to help retain the JT's potency in smaller team games. Here are some I propose, but I would like to hear other ideas that would balance it better for 3v3 and 4v4:

1) JT call-in cool down increased drastically (potentially up to 5-7 minutes or more)
2) JT range normalized to 17-pdr so it cannot outright counter a static unit

I would tend to agree that the nerfs have to be creative to keep the unit unique. I'm not sure that a cool-down nerf would help though. If I've managed to take a JT once (due to inattention), I'll probably manage to pull that feat off again.

Some other ideas:
- Make JT shots much louder and more distinct, so that nobody can 2-shot snipe tanks during a firefight.
- Increase JT scatter horizontal significantly, so that using smoke to close the distance becomes more viable.

(the smoke idea, with reservations; it might turn the JT into garbage)

I like how JT hardcounters 17 pounder emplacement.

That is all.

Even with a range nerf, the JT will have no issue hardcountering the 17 pounder. However, it might make the JT vulnerable, as it might have to take damage.

For the uninitiated, the Elefant (70 range) also hardcounters the 17 pounder (80). How? By outdpsing it of course. The Elefant has a good chance to bounce 17 pounder shots.

The JT has even better armor.

The problem is in maps, not in JT.

Bingo! Well, almost; the real culprit is the mappool selection process for these gamemodes.

When it comes to the 2v2 map selection, you have some maps that favour the JT (I'd imagine Minsk Pocket and Rails and Metal -- but I'm not a connoisseur), and several maps that don't.

Now compare this to the mappool selection for 4v4. Find me a single map (apart from La Gleize) that doesn't blatantly favour the Jagtiger. Thus, essentially:

- The Jagtiger is OP on certain types of maps
- The mappool selection of certain gamemodes consists almost entirely of such types of maps
- Ergo, the JT is OP on those gamemodes (i.e., due to the mappool selection process)

Any form of heavy art destroy a JT (priest ,suxaton,102ml) even vet 2 pak
They pen every hit and is realllly slow

- For USF, Priest spam is the only counter to the JT I know of
- For UKF, PIAT spam works wonders
- For Soviets, I am open to suggestions

Any form of heavy art destroy a JT (priest ,suxaton,102ml) even vet 2 pak
They pen every hit and is realllly slow

The fact that you think this shows you've never actually tried it before. Artillery is very innacuarate and a single hit of 200 damage is negligible to a 1000+ hp unit. Jagtiger is slow, but artillery is also slow to fire. They still easily move out of the way. By the time you fire again the jagtiger will already be repaired. So unless the player is stupid and just sits there artillery won't really do much.

It's counters need to be reinforced. It should take extra damage from heavy arty and extra pen from infantry AT. It's just so damn resistant to the things that should be effective against it.

- For Soviets, I am open to suggestions

Mechanized Support works great with this combo
-1 ISU 152
-1 SU85
-2 2 Guards

Button on guard + mark vehicules is perfect

The fact that you think this shows you've never actually tried it before. Artillery is very innacuarate and a single hit of 200 damage is negligible to a 1000+ hp unit. Jagtiger is slow, but artillery is also slow to fire. They still easily move out of the way. By the time you fire again the jagtiger will already be repaired. So unless the player is stupid and just sits there artillery won't really do much.

Tried vs KT with priest and worked had some Jackson to finish the job
For JT it was used on me a lucky crit and damage engine got the work for them

very expensive,very slow,crew shock on hit,can't fire on move,slow rotation no nerf needed if anything it needs buff move on plz

+1

+1

playercards please

Mechanized Support works great with this combo
-1 ISU 152
-1 SU85
-2 2 Guards

Button on guard + mark vehicules is perfect

Ok...so you just committed what appears to be half or more of your army to fight this unit. You also had to drive under its gun to fire, and the opponents did not move.

The MT is ok, and frankly required to deal with its enormous health pool, but I don't understand how a turretless TD is supposed intimidate an effective AT gun.

@Mr. Smith, I appreciate your responses. I also agree map selection is a problem, but we are unlikely to change the entire map pool. The unit itself will unfortunately need to be modified to fit better. In my experience, lesser skilled players are able to recover from a losing battle by slowly bleeding an Allied team to death with JTs. If the trade is slightly in the Axis favor, and they do it again pretty soon they are up 3 or 4 tanks on the Allied team. By making the unit appear slower the trade is still in favor of the Axis team but helps to allow the Allied team to also pick up steam again.
About the emplacements, the need to force the JT to expose itself to damage, as you pointed out, is really the critical part of bringing the ranges in line.

@Omega_Warrior, target tables could work as well to help redress the issue a bit. Artillery as you pointed out gets at most 1-shell on target. On it by default most be fired at near max range to prevent the JT from creeping foward and blasting the unit to kingdom come.

@Stug life, Did you seriously recommend the Sexton to kill the JT?

Look well I said suxaton

isu-152? nobody uses it to counter tanks anymore... it even bounces shots off panzer iv. it's mainly an anti-blob/infantry vehicle. useless penetration against vehicles. It should be given the same penetration as firefly but vanilla units are being left behind.

Where is the problem in this case, in the JT or in the 4vs4 maps?

For example, look at this Tali-Ihantala map and tell me where you can have the JT in a safe position.

Bigger maps in automatch that are instant wins for Jagdtigers are:

Lienne-Forest (controls the middle)
Rzhev
Ettelbrück (put him behind the trainstation and you control 2 Vps)
Hamburg (preferable from south, choose between 2 chokepoints)
Lanzerath (preferable from north, control the chokepoints)
Hill400 (free spotting, the hill is yours)
Angermünde (error 404 flanking not found, however a good amount of mines)
Redball Express (the whole field is a frontal engagement)
Lazur Factory (from south it's incredible easy to hold 2 vps, trickier from the north though)

and every game in which allies aren't using P2W doctrines or have no british teammates.

Btw: JT/Ele make a great team with Command Panthers, delivering a whopping 720 damage with mark target.

i think this is a ressource problem rather than a unit problem. imo the fuel income in 3v3 and even more so in 4v4 is a tad too high. other than that the unit is fine, especially considering its very late arrival and its whopping price tag.

Relic might not be a fan of one time call-ins but the JT would be perfect if you could only call in one a game. It would be affordable enough to call in regularly in longer team games, would be a game changer while on the field, and yet being unable to replace it would ensure that even bad trades by the allies would be worthwhile if they manage to kill the JT in the process.

Relic might not be a fan of one time call-ins but the JT would be perfect if you could only call in one a game. It would be affordable enough to call in regularly in longer team games, would be a game changer while on the field, and yet being unable to replace it would ensure that even bad trades by the allies would be worthwhile if they manage to kill the JT in the process.

If so it need some real buff like no crew shok ,faster ,can shoot trough the shoot blocker more health