Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

How to deal with Sturm pios ?

Shoot them.

How to deal with Sturm pios ?

If you are playing against OKW send your engineer/re with your first infantry squad to your fuel and 2v1 them. You will win every time unless you walk up to them. If you are UKF it's even easier. Once you push them off, cap the map with ease. They will be out for awhile and you only have volks to deal with. There is a reason you don't see pros rush for the cutoff at the very beginning of the game as OKW.

Once you have a few squads out it's fine. You're fine. Focus sturms when you see them and push them off.

But how?
If I play soviets, I'm in a map, say the Crossing in the Woods ok?

If I start up with either cons or penals, and he decides to rush in the point near my base (we all know what point I mean, it's the one they always rush to).

Flank left is suddenly blocked since I cannot beat a sturm with any of my units, and right flank is probably stuck as well since I cannot beat any volk blob I will be facing.

Which leaves me with no other choice than to wait until I can blob 2 to 3 conscripts myself.
By that time the guy would have made me lose enough time to not have map control and else he safely controls one of the fuel.

But how?
If I play soviets, I'm in a map, say the Crossing in the Woods ok?

If I start up with either cons or penals, and he decides to rush in the point near my base (we all know what point I mean, it's the one they always rush to).

Flank left is suddenly blocked since I cannot beat a sturm with any of my units, and right flank is probably stuck as well since I cannot beat any volk blob I will be facing.

Which leaves me with no other choice than to wait until I can blob 2 to 3 conscripts myself.
By that time the guy would have made me lose enough time to not have map control and else he safely controls one of the fuel.

You have an engineer, you can get your cons out before the sturms reach the point. Use them together, they will win.

"Also LUL at Sturms beating Commandos. If only you would have actually tested that..."

Do they teach reading at elementary school?

4 man vet 2 Sturms beat 4 man commando squad when I tested it 2 out of 3 times. The RNG probably depends on the bugged ambush bonus, hence if the 1 commando model with ambush dies the Sturms win.


"A: suddenly sturmpio's have vet 2 at the beginning of the game.

B. perhaps the issue is related to the person using the commando's....."

Commandos are 3 or 4CP, hence vet 2 is a realistic test.

Test was merely in the open at short range so no user involvement at all.

I do wonder what other 'mental' gymnastics need to be used for a starting unit to be almost as strong, and to scale better, than the UKF's elite doctrinal infantry.

Another test, both vet 0 in the open at medium range. Sturms beat 5 man commando squad losing 1 model! So much better at medium range and better with some vet at close range.

Another test, vet 0 sturms in light cover, 5 man commandos close, and lose. Sturms losing 2 models.

#balanced

Why is this thread still up?

So much just complete bullshit in this thread.

"Sturms are a free unit"
No, you pay for every starting unit out of your starting manpower. That is why Soviets start with 60 more manpower thank OKW. You will get out more units than them faster.

If I remember well, OKW has been given more manpower at start. If what you say was true the difference would have been 130mp difference (if I'm not mistaken Su engineers cost 170mp).

OKW early game has been artificially improved, reducing Sturm price and increasing it stats and giving more MP at start to "compensate the new trucks cost". It was a good move before removing the faction penalties. Now this is just a free win never lose early game situation.

You have an engineer, you can get your cons out before the sturms reach the point. Use them together, they will win.

ok

If I remember well, OKW has been given more manpower at start. If what you say was true the difference would have been 130mp difference (if I'm not mistaken Su engineers cost 170mp).

OKW early game has been artificially improved, reducing Sturm price and increasing it stats and giving more MP at start to "compensate the new trucks cost". It was a good move before removing the faction penalties. Now this is just a free win never lose early game situation.

Man you never even play OKW, maybe get some perspective before you claim it is impossible to beat the first engagement. I will play you if you want, you can even use the OP sturms.

If you can drop the Sturms to 3 men with your CEs or REs, you've won the push. A lot of OKW players will tend to try and capitalize on the Sturm's power early game and attempt to rush your engies or REs if you run them out first. Once a model drops on the Sturms they'll be unable to hold the ground against whatever infantry you use.

One thing to keep in mind about Sturms which I don't think people take into account is that they are not slowed down by terrain effects. As a result they're exceptionally good at chasing down squads, on retreat or not.

"Also LUL at Sturms beating Commandos. If only you would have actually tested that..."

Do they teach reading at elementary school?

4 man vet 2 Sturms beat 4 man commando squad when I tested it 2 out of 3 times. The RNG probably depends on the bugged ambush bonus, hence if the 1 commando model with ambush dies the Sturms win.


"A: suddenly sturmpio's have vet 2 at the beginning of the game.

B. perhaps the issue is related to the person using the commando's....."

Commandos are 3 or 4CP, hence vet 2 is a realistic test.

Test was merely in the open at short range so no user involvement at all.

I do wonder what other 'mental' gymnastics need to be used for a starting unit to be almost as strong, and to scale better, than the UKF's elite doctrinal infantry.

Another test, both vet 0 in the open at medium range. Sturms beat 5 man commando squad losing 1 model! So much better at medium range and better with some vet at close range.

Another test, vet 0 sturms in light cover, 5 man commandos close, and lose. Sturms losing 2 models.

#balanced

Apply same logic to ober vs rifle as vet 3 is realistic for them when ober come out and look at that they lose wow maybe should we give them 30 dmg x shoot that would be balanced
Btw why 4 man ? Commando are 5 man and did you give them ambush buff couse is permanent when used
And try to look the vet required for vet 2 sturm
Btw commando have more dmg till 10 range then is lower and the dos is for man not x squad so need to multiply one for 4 and the other for 5
And go look coh2.stats you will see the price of commando is 350

I think this is a problem with OKW having great starting manpower and a cheaply priced kubel wagon. So what ends up happening is you have to deal with a STP + Kubel immediately. If it was one or the other it would be manageable.

I think it's backwards to say "Just 2v1 the STP squad" then you say "IGNORE THE SQUAD IN A BUILDING". You are aware he's stalling for his kubel + volks so that he can destroy you right? A good okw's plan is to just sit his STP's in heavy/buildings, deny you fuel, and wait for his kubel to snipe you at max range.

This happens more in 2v2 and higher. Mostly because there's "chokepoints" of fighting and maps are larger. In 1v1 you can usually find a very defensible position near your critical locations. In 2v2 it's like "oh hey there's a building he took near the fuel point".

"Also LUL at Sturms beating Commandos. If only you would have actually tested that..."

Do they teach reading at elementary school?

4 man vet 2 Sturms beat 4 man commando squad when I tested it 2 out of 3 times. The RNG probably depends on the bugged ambush bonus, hence if the 1 commando model with ambush dies the Sturms win.


"A: suddenly sturmpio's have vet 2 at the beginning of the game.

B. perhaps the issue is related to the person using the commando's....."

Commandos are 3 or 4CP, hence vet 2 is a realistic test.

Test was merely in the open at short range so no user involvement at all.

I do wonder what other 'mental' gymnastics need to be used for a starting unit to be almost as strong, and to scale better, than the UKF's elite doctrinal infantry.

Another test, both vet 0 in the open at medium range. Sturms beat 5 man commando squad losing 1 model! So much better at medium range and better with some vet at close range.

Another test, vet 0 sturms in light cover, 5 man commandos close, and lose. Sturms losing 2 models.

#balanced

LULULUL

4 man commando squads are Infiltration commandos. They are a nerfed version of commandos because they can spawn out of buildings.

Vet 2 is a random cherrypick by you.

Commandos are a close range unit. Guess what, they would've won against shocks too, and that's 390 mp armoured assault unit! Wooooowwwwww

And look at that, 440mp Falls and 400mp Obers use to vet 3 stock rifle and tommies, especially when THEY HAVE TO CLOSE TO A UNIT IN COVER

#Balance LuL

Or you know what. Restore the Sturms to their Pre nerf stats for a week or two, the tears will be enough to terraform mars!


I saw your skill level the second i saw you trying to counter Sturms with Conscripts or Penals

I think it's backwards to say "Just 2v1 the STP squad" then you say "IGNORE THE SQUAD IN A BUILDING". You are aware he's stalling for his kubel + volks so that he can destroy you right? A good okw's plan is to just sit his STP's in heavy/buildings, deny you fuel, and wait for his kubel to snipe you at max range.

Why aren't you bringing up more of your own troops in the meanwhile? If there is a sturmpio in a building it's not going to be doing anything, ignore it until you have enough units near by to deal with it.

Man you never even play OKW, maybe get some perspective before you claim it is impossible to beat the first engagement. I will play you if you want, you can even use the OP sturms.

Ad hominem attack because of lack of arguments. Sad.

If I remember well, OKW has been given more manpower at start. If what you say was true the difference would have been 130mp difference (if I'm not mistaken Su engineers cost 170mp).

Difference is 90 mp in favor for OKW I believe

Ad hominem attack because of lack of arguments. Sad.

Argument to logic.

Also that wasn't a fallacy, ad hominem doesn't have to be fallacious if it relates to your credibility. You are not a credible source on OKW balance, was my point.

I offered to play you and prove you wrong, but you decided to ignore that part I suppose.

They shouldn't start out with such a good unit given they no longer suffer income penalties.

-Strongest mine in game (non-doctrinal).
-Barbed wire that can't be crushed by light vehicles.
-Great firepower.
-Vet stun grenades.
-medic supplies.

Made sense in the old OKW, not like this.

They shouldn't start out with such a good unit given they no longer suffer income penalties.

-Strongest mine in game (non-doctrinal).
-Barbed wire that can't be crushed by light vehicles.
-Great firepower.
-Vet stun grenades.
-medic supplies.

Made sense in the old OKW, not like this.

1.I believe the OKW mine is the same as the SU mine(stat and cost-wise).
2.They changed it to regular barbed wire, it just looks the same as before
3.Only at mid range.
4.Yeah, they are arguably the second best grenades in the game(Commandos grenade/mini satchel is boss).
5.I rarely if ever see this used, kinda a forgotten/overlooked ability.

Things to consider though, unit is 300MP and 30-32MP to reinforce. This unit is the only decent combat unit for OKW until late game, expensive Obers(non-doc).

1.I believe the OKW mine is the same as the SU mine(stat and cost-wise).
2.They changed it to regular barbed wire, it just looks the same as before
3.Only at mid range.
4.Yeah, they are arguably the second best grenades in the game(Commandos grenade/mini satchel is boss).
5.I rarely if ever see this used, kinda a forgotten/overlooked ability.

Things to consider though, unit is 300MP and 30-32MP to reinforce. This unit is the only decent combat unit for OKW until late game, expensive Obers(non-doc).

1. it is the same mine afaik
2. the okw wire can be cut like normal wire (before it could not) but it still cant be run over by anything less than a medium iirc
3. nothing to add
4. agreed, they rock and are for some reason frequently ignored
5. VERY handy when going fast luchs into t4, i will usually drop one at base when i retreat my sturms so i can top off low health guys without teching

also worth adding

6. can put away their sweeper AND get bonus repair speed with the upgrade that costs the same
7. ignore mud/deep snow
8 0.87 target size

the are expensive, and losses hurt but they usually hurt the enemy more than they hurt you (assuming you don't pretend they are shock troops) and in the early game there isnt much that can stand up to them if not anticipated

Maybe I don't understand something, but why top-engineer unit (fastest reapair speed + repair upgrade) is also such a good close and middle combat unit, which is able in T0 and works, as first unit of OKW? Isn't that too much for just one "engineer" unit?

I know, that it cost a lot (300 MP), but it is also questionable point - soviet sturms costs 390 MP (and 2 CP doctrine), and they are only better, than sturmpios in close, and lose in mid-combat, but they can't build, repair put medboxes and do a lot of other stuff. Why sturmpios are so universal!?

Engineers of all other factions are 10 times worse, they usualy can't into effective combat, like soviet or ostheer engineers, rear echelons are totally broken and only able to carry zooks and lose them, nobody cares, that "Volley fire" doesn't work right. Only UK's engieers can be same good, as OKW's, but even they need for that UK's T3, side upgrade and 70 muni on repair pack + 1 MG + armor. OKW engineers are dangerous from the very start, and that's not normal.

I suggest to save their cool repair abilities, but cut their firepower by giving them another guns from start. Maybe MP-41 (should be little better, than loosy MP-40), maybe MKb 42. with way lesser accuracy on them... I think it's possible to find some options here.

And also I suggest to give to Sturmpios upgrade, which will be able after T1. With that upgrade they will get back their STGs, but will lose all abilities to repair and build and will turn into normal close-mid combat unit. And maybe - give them HP boost with upgrade, for to make them more effective in that.

So, OKW will be free to choose between engineer unit and close combat unit. It's really more, than all other factions have.

P.S. Why not to give to ALL engineers of all factions upgrade, which will boost their repair abilities? Because Ostheer, Soviet and US engieers are veeeeery slow in repairing. In late that slowness make hurt you hard.

Sturms have to be very VERY close in order to dominate with their STGs, much closer than other units equipped with STGs. If you think they are so powerful, you are probably not keeping your distance which is pretty easy as they have to basically stand on top of your units to have the advantage.

I would support allowing the minesweeper upgrades for the other factions to increase repair rates as does for OKW. Perhaps for a slight muni increase in cost. Also all factions should be able to put away the minesweeper for additional firepower as OKW can.

Joseph