Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

Why aren't you bringing up more of your own troops in the meanwhile? If there is a sturmpio in a building it's not going to be doing anything, ignore it until you have enough units near by to deal with it.

We'll use USF as an example. You'll have a riflemen + Rear up about the time that he has a kubel + Storm attacking you. You'll have a second rifle building around this time. His volks will be building around the same time too.

So you'll pretty much try to stall until your second rifle comes out. During this time you may not even get remotely close to that building while a Kubel pelts you. So you're defending some random part of the map while he gets out and possibly flanks you. Seems like a bad spot to be in.

I feel like the biggest problem is the Kubel sometimes outranges infantry for NO REASON. Like my infantry won't fire at the kubel but the kubel will fire at them. Then, you got a 22% chance to penetrate it each shot while he starts taking models, it becomes a bad time.

I find myself having the best shot with brits, because the Universal Carrier is just as retarded.

Kubels don't stand up to rifles for very long. On to of that, this seems to be rather missing the point; your one unit is now occupying both your opponents first units, while they aren't even capping. Strategically, you're winning this. Even better, if you damage the kubel, which you will, then both units are also out of action for longer. By the time this resolves, even if it means you have to retreat a squad that's drop a few models, your opponent has achieved nothing at all while you gained map control.

"Btw why 4 man ? Commando are 5 man and did you give them ambush buff couse is permanent when used"

Yes they had ambush. 4 man because

a) It shows the relative strength between models, ie shows that Sturms are remarkably similar, and scale better, to the UKF's elite doctrinal infantry. Not bad for a non doc cheaper starting unit.
b) Mobile assault is meta, few people use Vanguard and very few use the actual Commando commander. Cost per model is 110 in 2 out of 3 commanders, infiltration are only nerfed in terms of their demo charge.
c) The price of a commando squad in Vanguard is indeed 350MP, however the requirments are greater than the other two commanders. You need 3CP plus 540 MP + 350MP to gain a Commando squad in Vanguard. The manpower requirements at that stage of the game add up to 4 or 5 minutes worth, pushing the appearance of Commandos back.

OKW are meant to be powerful in the early game and with highly specialised and aggressive units. Therefore I don't have a problem with Sturms being early game close assault specialists. This however puts their abilities in the mid and late game, particularly with high Vet, under the spotlight. As too their mid range potential which appears to be out of whack with all other close combat infantry and over performs compared to their cost.

"Btw why 4 man ? Commando are 5 man and did you give them ambush buff couse is permanent when used"

Yes they had ambush. 4 man because

a) It shows the relative strength between models, ie shows that Sturms are remarkably similar, and scale better, to the UKF's elite doctrinal infantry. Not bad for a non doc cheaper starting unit.
b) Mobile assault is meta, few people use Vanguard and very few use the actual Commando commander. Cost per model is 110 in 2 out of 3 commanders, infiltration are only nerfed in terms of their demo charge.
c) The price of a commando squad in Vanguard is indeed 350MP, however the requirments are greater than the other two commanders. You need 3CP plus 540 MP + 350MP to gain a Commando squad in Vanguard. The manpower requirements at that stage of the game add up to 4 or 5 minutes worth, pushing the appearance of Commandos back.

OKW are meant to be powerful in the early game and with highly specialised and aggressive units. Therefore I don't have a problem with Sturms being early game close assault specialists. This however puts their abilities in the mid and late game, particularly with high Vet, under the spotlight. As too their mid range potential which appears to be out of whack with all other close combat infantry and over performs compared to their cost.

The cost of a squad is reinforce cost x 10 circa
For almost all squad do the math and you will see that even the fj cost 380 but you pay 440 (in fact they lose to obers)
And if you buff obers too I'm all in

I agree that popcap and reinforce costs are major parts of a units actual cost.

In fact I factored in 10 reinforcement and popcap costs on a comparison I did on the dps spreadsheet thread. Sturms were head and shoulders ahead on that basis...

I agree that popcap and reinforce costs are major parts of a units actual cost.

In fact I factored in 10 reinforcement and popcap costs on a comparison I did on the dps spreadsheet thread. Sturms were head and shoulders ahead on that basis...

and obers were head in the mud with efficiency

Don't think I included Obers...

Don't think I included Obers...

Wasn't this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=1675306803 ?

I didn't write the spreadsheet, just added a post onto the thread...

https://www.coh2.org/topic/50986/coh2-dps-chart/post/511252

I didn't write the spreadsheet, just added a post onto the thread...

https://www.coh2.org/topic/50986/coh2-dps-chart/post/511252

Can't understand the | and the man power

Take out Sturms and let a volks be a Starter unit, because we all love volks.

I dont have any problems against Sturms, it's just like against PE in vcoh, you dont 1v1 them early game, you cap around them till you got a favourable Engagement.

Only time I get mad is when they are at 1/4 health and still 4 models because that can fuck up your whole early game, on the other side if he the Sturm loses a model in the first volley it's a easy early game for you, that's the rng we all love and hate.

Take out Sturms and let a volks be a Starter unit, because we all love volks.

Maybe Kubelwagen as starter? Will remind us Panzer Elite with Kettenkrad.

Maybe Kubelwagen as starter? Will remind us Panzer Elite with Kettenkrad.

Cant wait for the crying when the kubel starts picking off your Engineer right when he leaves the base lol

Cant wait for the crying when the kubel starts picking off your Engineer right when he leaves the base lol

Well, kubel is not so leathal as Spios and engineers can fight it back more effectively... Theoretically.

Kettenkrad and Shwimmwagen were perfect ideas in vCoH. Unarmed fast-cap bike/car with bunch of usefull abilities. Would be nice to make kubel like that, but they won't copy their old ideas... That's sad.

Well, vCoH is a different game, and CoH2 is not a remake of vCoH.

Well, vCoH is a different game, and CoH2 is not a remake of vCoH.

But why no to "steal" your own good ideas for your last game? If idea was really good there is nothing wrong in using that again!

It's best not to re-iterate the same thing over and over again, but to find better, more appropriate and more original solutions.

It's best not to re-iterate the same thing over and over again, but to find better, more appropriate and more original solutions.

And if you can't find them, then they can use same things again? I mean, they could fix a lot of difficult problems in CoH 2 by using vCoH's things. And Im sure, that nobody would say bad word to Relic for that. Better have "little copied", but good game, instead of "fully original" cat's puke.

No. If you want to play vCoH, play vCoH. If you want CoH2, play CoH2. No need to make CoH2 vCoH.

No. If you want to play vCoH, play vCoH. If you want CoH2, play CoH2. No need to make CoH2 vCoH.

I don't ask to "fully copy everything from vCoH", don't you understand? Just some things, which could only make game BETTER! More than that, they used a lot from vCoH's mechanics for to make it. USSR looks pretty like USF in vCoH, Wehrmacht has something similar to vCoH's Wermacht... Only new factions are 100% original, but that maybe reason, why they all are broken in that way or another.

So, why not to use those ideas and make game better? Global upgrades for USSR, for expample.