Time for Statistics

I am skipping this patch. This game is not even competitive when you have OP OKW running around. Relic could've at least tested this for months with beta like system and throw in the new commanders. There was no need to release 2 new commanders right when we got Pershing and Hetzer.

Of course there is. $$$$$$$$$$$$

From a strictly statistical point of view, if one wants, to compare to 2 sets of data (in this case players and games) there must be at least of 1 of 2 things:

Either the players must be the same and play the same number of games. (and in this case it is not since player are playing around 4 times mores as OKW)

or

There should be a large sample of data, and since 150 players are not enough one needs a large number of games...thus more time.

I have to say, releasing such a HUGE change to one faction (and thereby affecting all factions) right before the Holiday break when people will be wanting to play a lot was very questionable. I sure hope hotfixes are in the works. I remember last year when Relic just finished AA and was so "exhausted" we didn't see any real updates for almost 6 months....

December 6th update:





Allies still dropping or stagnating across all mode. Only USF had a slightly better day then yesterday in 1v1.

OKW on the other hand still skyrocketing across all modes. With no sign of dropping significantly. And are now almost at a 95% winrate in 4v4. No matter what you think about about 4v4 that's just wrong on so many levels.

Can I get a HEIL from all my OKW brothers!?

Really great patch, Relic. OKW at the top of every game mode, UKF at the bottom of every game mode. Has that ever happened before? One faction buffed so much and one faction nerfed so hard that they over and under perform the same in all game modes?

Really great patch, Relic. OKW at the top of every game mode, UKF at the bottom of every game mode. Has that ever happened before? One faction buffed so much and one faction nerfed so hard that they over and under perform the same in all game modes?

Yes coh1 happen all the time, which puzzles me to another thread about "what's better coh or coh2", but that's another story. I personally thought we where past this stage in the franchise.

I don't understand, did anyone even play the test patch? It seems so weird, that the patch was out for testing and was updated, but this OKW problem wasn't discovered? or did relic not listen ?

I don't understand, did anyone even play the test patch? It seems so weird, that the patch was out for testing and was updated, but this OKW problem wasn't discovered? or did relic not listen ?

Nobody saw the popcap changes coming with the patch; and a lot of people said that vehicles were coming out too fast; especially panthers/KTs.

IF 1000 games are played with axis and 500 are played with allies in the top 150 players, that means that axis played 500 games against players who are outside that skill bracket. Which means that axis will have an inflated win rates because they are playing against weaker skilled players.

Uh... wat...?

Are those even coherent sentences? I think I get what you're saying, but wow. That wording though.

Why not just say that these graphs do not account for the high likelihood that the vast majority of these matches were played between players with a significant skill gap, therefore the data should be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyways, I don't think anyone can defend the fact that OKW is vastly over performing this patch. Most of us could tell this was going to be the case just from reading patch notes.

Uh... wat...?

Are those even coherent sentences? I think I get what you're saying, but wow. That wording though.

Why not just say that these graphs do not account for the high likelihood that the vast majority of these matches were played between players with a significant skill gap, therefore the data should be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyways, I don't think anyone can defend the fact that OKW is vastly over performing this patch. Most of us could tell this was going to be the case just from reading patch notes.

And despite that being so blatantly obvious with comments made during the preview patch period Relic still rolled this version out. What does that say about the vetting process or lack thereof? The pop cap is just salt in the wound as that reduced MP hit due to infantry pop upkeep means OKW will float MP even more than before so not only has their ammo and fuel income increased, so has MP!

There was a thread discussing the mod, with plenty of ideas and recommendations on how to improve the patch. Everything that was said in there was ignored

I do not even know why they do a preview if most things in the patch are missing, or if the balance feedback is not enacted upon.

I'm really frustrated with the state of this game.

Uh... wat...?

Are those even coherent sentences? I think I get what you're saying, but wow. That wording though.

Why not just say that these graphs do not account for the high likelihood that the vast majority of these matches were played between players with a significant skill gap, therefore the data should be taken with a grain of salt.

Anyways, I don't think anyone can defend the fact that OKW is vastly over performing this patch. Most of us could tell this was going to be the case just from reading patch notes.

In 1v1's, the top 150 axis players (OKW + OST) played a total of 240 games. The top allied players (UKF, USF, & SOV) played a total of 252 games, so if number of games was the reason, 1v1 would be skewed in favor of allies. In fact, the numbers are the same across the board.

This "number of games played" reason has about as much validity as the "cool uniform" or "bad guys" theory. There have been times that it did affect the results, but now isn't one of them.

There are some things that I like about the patch. The pack howie and LeIG were ruining 1v1's and needed a nerf. I like the idea of not having the resource penalty on OKW but when they did that, they should have added the tech costs that other factions have to pay, meaning shreks, grenades, etc should now cost fuel. The Panzer Schwerer should cost at least as much fuel as the Major, etc, etc. Also, if they were going to do a major redesign, they should have left everything else alone and just changed OKW instead of all the changes. WTF was Relic thinking?

It was inevitable. Relic just aren't AAA-class Devs. They will be chasing their tails to clear up the grotesque mess this patch has done; it hasn't fixed a single issue.

Uh... wat...?

Are those even coherent sentences? I think I get what you're saying, but wow. That wording though.

Yes, it's actually pretty easy to follow if you're not retarded, asshole.

Sentence 1:
"If 1000 games are played with axis and 500 are played with allies in the top 150 players, that means that axis played 500 games against players who are outside that skill bracket."

1000-500 = 500. pretty easy to understand. I kept it extremely simple and clarified in detail in another post.

Sentence 2:
"Which means that axis will have an inflated win rates because they are playing against weaker skilled players."

500 games are outside the skill bracket and against weaker players. Therefore the win rate is higher, due to more uneven match ups.

The reason I didn't explain it like that was he wanted to know WHY we're disregarding the stats, not for me just to tell him that they should be disregarded.

In 1v1's, the top 150 axis players (OKW + OST) played a total of 240 games. The top allied players (UKF, USF, & SOV) played a total of 252 games, so if number of games was the reason, 1v1 would be skewed in favor of allies. In fact, the numbers are the same across the board.

This "number of games played" reason has about as much validity as the "cool uniform" or "bad guys" theory. There have been times that it did affect the results, but now isn't one of them.

I'm not trying to say OKW is not OP, I'm just saying it's not statistically sound data. As "Myself" has asid, they either need to control for players (Only count games between players who are both in the top 150) or increase the sample size much large than the top 150. (top 500 atleast)

And despite that being so blatantly obvious with comments made during the preview patch period Relic still rolled this version out. What does that say about the vetting process or lack thereof?

Everyone was praising the patch and the patch preview around these here parts.


More than a few "OMG JESUS PATCH THANKS RELIC" posts.

Honestly, they got a shit ton of positive feedback from people about the patch note. They also got positive results from the survey.

It's amazing how much the community flip flopped on a patch that they even helped design. (Relic listened to the containment thread about OKW)


You all are going to pretend that you always knew the patch was going to be shit, but one only need look at some posts from last month to see all the praise they were giving out. Obviously not everyone agreed, but I find it pretty funny to see posts like yours claiming everyone knew it was going to be bad. We were in the minority of posters, the vast majority of people thought these OKW changes were great.

Everyone was praising the patch and the patch preview around these here parts.


More than a few "OMG JESUS PATCH THANKS RELIC" posts.

Honestly, they got a shit ton of positive feedback from people about the patch note. They also got positive results from the survey.

It's amazing how much the community flip flopped on a patch that they even helped design. (Relic listened to the containment thread about OKW)


You all are going to pretend that you always knew the patch was going to be shit, but one only need look at some posts from last month to see all the praise they were giving out. Obviously not everyone agreed, but I find it pretty funny to see posts like yours claiming everyone knew it was going to be bad. We were in the minority of posters, the vast majority of people thought these OKW changes were great.

That's not my experience. The thread where the test notes were released already coined the term ''OPKW'', as we see not without reason. Most certainly not everyone was praising the patch once they thought a bit about the implications of the OKW ''overhaul'' being pretty much a straight buff of everything they have at once.

I certainly thought the UKF nerfs went too far (despite arguing for them being clearly OP at release) and the OKW buffs were ludicrous. So far I saw little that dispels those notions honestly. OKW in particular was overbuffed (Volks buff, popcap buff, much faster timings on their extremely potent vehicle arsenal, the damn Goliath), that much is crystal clear to me, and I don't expect the stats to change much in the coming weeks. Like the Brits, I have a feeling OKW will get an arrow in the knee in 1-2 months.

Thanks for the charts. Yes, it's an early read, but it's still a very interesting one. Just to see the magnitude of the swings. Pretty impressive, but not in a good way.

Everyone was praising the patch and the patch preview around these here parts.


More than a few "OMG JESUS PATCH THANKS RELIC" posts.

Honestly, they got a shit ton of positive feedback from people about the patch note. They also got positive results from the survey.

It's amazing how much the community flip flopped on a patch that they even helped design. (Relic listened to the containment thread about OKW)


You all are going to pretend that you always knew the patch was going to be shit, but one only need look at some posts from last month to see all the praise they were giving out. Obviously not everyone agreed, but I find it pretty funny to see posts like yours claiming everyone knew it was going to be bad. We were in the minority of posters, the vast majority of people thought these OKW changes were great.

+ 1000 on this and nobody can argue. The feedback Relic received was generaly good and the majority of patch testers were verry happy with OKW "revamp", which shows that actualy, no matter how high their rank is, they DON'T HAVE ANY CLUE in fact about how to play OKW, its weaknesses and strengts or how it should be changed. All I red on these forums was, as you said, "OMG JESUS NICE PATCH THANKS RELIC" comming from all kind of clueless guys who play the role of "experienced" players around here who now are crying like no tomorrow refusing even the slightest idea of adaptation.
Hey guys, you liked posting all around "L2Adapt" but not when your turn comes to put your tiny little brains to work, isn't it?

Even me, AN OKW FANBOY, after playing a couple of times the patch beta,I said what I have been saying from longtime: there was no need for such a boost for OKW. OKW needed other changes, and it was anyway in a better state that Ostheer was/is today.

Units scrambling in tiers - why? Who asked that? Now almost nobody builds Jgdpanzer 4.
Volks buffing instead making MG34 a stock unit. Why? They just encouraged blobbing instead encouraging combined arms concept (MG34+volks+sturms)
Full fuel income - why? Was that realy necessary? If a smart Ostheer inflates a little OKW economy now, it will result in a disaster on higher games modes, like 3v3s and 4v4s.
Conversion from T3 removed - why? That was part of OKW flavor and tough choices that it had to make.

The only good changes were removing supression from Kubel and make it a capping unit, but it should have switched places with Mg34.

Anyway, prediction:
After one month of allied fanboys whinings, Relic will tone down OKW, not by reverting most of the changes, but nerfing it into nothingness.

*Corgito, ergo sum* - Why the heck did I temporarely quit Fallout 4 for this patch/game? The comunity keeps ruining the game, and Relic keeps listening to all clueless guys around here, because it doesn't know what else to do.