OKW Vet 5 justified (December Update)?

I never liked vet5, and I still don't like it

Vet5 is in place because their nonvet stats sucks.


CASE CLOSED, MOURN AND MOVE ON

volks stronger then cons and an upgrade as well
Sturms best early game unit
Better P4 available same time as ostheer weaker one
Panther with better stats then ostheer panther and available much earlier
Only faction with non-doc elite infantry
Jagdpanzer beats every other medium TD in head on fight


Try harder

Vet5 is in place because their nonvet stats sucks.


CASE CLOSED, MOURN AND MOVE ON

You've just won the bullshit award of the month.

You're new to the game aren't you?

Clearly I don't compare to your expertise, oh mighty AT only player.

They could remove Vet 4 and 5, but Vet 2 and 3 on a lot of units could use a small buff then, as they are subpar to other faction's Vet 2 and 3.

Well its partially reasonable/relevant , firstly why should you suffer a resource penalty the full length of the game for vet bonuses rarely achieved? Would you choose that if you had a choice? Probably not. Volks atm are shit, they are spammed for impact and dare I say only good with high vet? It's not always about how good a faction is but how it contrasts with the opposition

At the end of the day its getting this much needed rework for a reason.. The whole resource penalty for crap isn't working. And Allied is too strong.

Again this is really not true. Units regularly receive vet 4 and 5. Harder on some (Kubel) almost guaranteed on others (Volks). You get the bonus of vet 4 and 5 because OKW had few tanks and their infantry had to be able to stand up alone to armor in the late game. Now they get it and have no downsides.

Vet 5 is similar to vet 3 for other factions. It's not like they are gaining 2 more stars that carry the weight of vet 2 and vet 3 of the other factions. Don't get me wrong there is some advantage, but people act like a vet 5 gren will destroy any vet 3 infantry the allies have.

And it's even more funny that people are complaining about the p2 rush, I mean stewart? T70? Forces OH to go tier 2 nearly EVERY game... but hey I was told to Learn to adapt...

And it's even more funny that people are complaining about the p2 rush, I mean stewart? T70? Forces OH to go tier 2 nearly EVERY game... but hey I was told to Learn to adapt...

Both of the counters you describe come later then the Luchs. They also come up against a faction with a powerful handheld AT on their basic infantry, which does not require any side upgrades to have. They must also be wary of mines now as well, so cannot chase Luchs as easily. So you get best of both, Luchs and then some AT to back it up. And Luchs can still damage both of those tanks, you just need to push the balance in your favor to win.

T2 is an amazingly powerful tier because it also offers exceptional AT at a cheap price (Puma), which incidentally can 1 shot brit snipers at vet 1.

Vet 5 is not similar to vet 3 in other factions. That is at best restricted to volks, and Volks bring to the table the cheapest mainline infantry with a range of abilities (in doc and out) that vet rapidly in late game, and also get vet to stay toe to toe with far more expensive infantry.

Other vet 5 tends to push the advantage well in favor of OKW, look at Obers. Look at Fussiliers. Look at Sturms. Look at JPIV. Look at JT. Look at PIV. Look at Panther. Stuka, etc. etc. The equivalent Allied units do not receive nearly as much.

Read my prior post to see why OKW originally had vet 5.

-vet 4 & 5 nerfed on most units.
-suppression from Kübel removed (which means weaker early game), especially in 2vs2+ games kübel rush was really stupid on maps like steppes, hill 313
-JP4 moved to Schwere Panzer HQ, that means tank counter is delayed
-Luchs cost increase & pen nerf, e.g. Stuart & T70 win every time against it
-KT limit to one, affects severly 3vs3+ games
-MP tech costs increased, while having higher reinforce cost on volks
-leig suppression removed, no stock HMG, which makes blobbing against OKW rewarding

Will be OKW stronger with the changes? Definately, but that was the point of the revamp.

Also if you want to remove 4 & 5 pls remove also all other unique faction characteristics in this game, e.g. vehicle crews, 6 men squads, emplacements etc.

I was busy writting a reply to this but Australian Magic did it for me, and he did it very well! Basically put u in your place

Clearly I don't compare to your expertise, oh mighty AT only player.

As long as you know your place and understand that

As long as you know your place and understand that

1. Units whose veterancy was not touched:
Sturmpioneers
Fusiliers
Puma
Stuka zu fuss
Luchs
Sturmtiger
Pak43
Command Pz 5
Jadgtiger

Units just slighly touched:
KT
Obers (still vet 4 suppress)
JP IV still has completly broken camo.

I hardly say "most units' veterancy was nefred"

2. Removed suppression is not "a nerf" because now it has different role. For example you can chase SU sniper, how this is a nerf? I find it as a buff.

3. Yes, that delay of JPIV which still arrives faster than first Sherman. Please, tell me what tanks you want to counter when JPIV hits the field before first allied medium.

4. Emmmm... Luchas is not designed to fight other lights, opposite to Stuart or T70 It's like saying that Brummbar is going to lose vs Sherman but Brummbar is not designed to fight Shermans.
By the way, first T70 (assuming there is no molotovs nor at nade upgrade) need 155F. Luchs needs only 135F. Now add molos or AT nades...

5. Whining about limited KT

6. MP Tech cost for OKW is 600MP (Med HQ + Flak HQ. 900M with all trucks). SU MP cost to get T4 is 640MP. Now add medics and at least 1 upgrade (which OKW already has) and we have 1015MP.
USF? 2 Officers (Lt/Cpt + Mjr) with healing cost 690MP (you may add nades/racks and it will be 840MP). Tell me one more time about high MP cost.

7. What stock MG USF have? Or maybe different question. How many times have you seen 50cal in last 6 months?

The level of being OKW fanboy is out of the scale.

Volksgrenadiers
Fallschirmjäger
Jäger Light Infantry
Obersoldaten
MG34 Heavy Machine Gun Team
Raktenwerfer 43 Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher
7.5cm le.IG 18 Infantry Support Gun
SdKfz 251/17 Flak Half-Track
Flammpanzer 38 “Hetzer”
Flakpanzer IV Ostwind
Jagdpanzer IV/70
Panzer IV Ausf. J Medium Tank
Panther PzKpfw V Medium Tank
Tiger B “Königstiger”

14 units were changed. That's the majority, hence most is the correct term as it means Greatest in number.

2. Removed suppression is a nerf, it could win engagements against several units even if you had less units on the field due better micro and positiong. Now it can cap and push. Yet a RE squad behind green cover is enough to scare it off. The MG34 on it can't kill a sniper even if you chase him over the whole map.

3. Again this theorycraft masters discussion? No competive good player will ever skip light vehicles, so your fallacy makes no sense here. Meta in the preview revolves around OKW going T3-T2-T4, while USF go Captain-ambu-bar/zooks-major

4. Luchs was losing against t70 & stuart already before, now its losing by a huge margin. Flat out nerf. Sure its design is to fight infantry but likewise it shouldn't be helpless that fill out the complete same margin. Your ludicrous Sherman / Brummbär comparision perfectly fits also for the T70 as it has the same role as a Luchs.

5. For me its a buff, for 3vs3+ heroes its a nerf.

6. Not arguing about theorycrafting semantics. OKW have at the moment even more MP than in the preview and yet are the weakest factions. If you had played the preview you'd notice that investing into light vehicles is a MP dump for OKW. And if you fail to force the OKW player to get light vehicles you do something wrong.

7. I use the .50 cal in every linear build I go. It's a great HMG, with good dps. You can ask even Firesparks I've build two in order to keep okw hordes back in the first preview patch version. Just because you are unable to utilize this unit it doesn't mean others are too. Against Ostheer a linear tech build is still stronger than the Captain only build.

bla bla okw fanboy

typical immature ad hominem. Play the game, play the preview. Mr theorycraft master. I wonder why you hide your playercard nowadays, as you were showing it in the past.
If you check out mine, you'd noticed I'm top 100 with allies in my preferred game mode. If you'd check my past games, you'd notice I have been playing constantly allies lately. While you don't seem to play the game at all, or even remotely the preview patch.

What makes sense to me for a late war Western front army is a manpower income reduction. There were plenty of munitions and fuel to go around it was a manpower problem the Germans had. This way you must preserve your units more so you don't bleed out your precious Ubermensch rather than floating 1,200 mp as OKW in 1v1 up to 4v4.

It would be Pathfinders, the Faction.

Honestly if you ask me, as an Axis player even I think this revamp is now a terrible idea, mainly the resource penalty change.

The Tech changes IMO are actually good, the resource penalty? No... instead of making it 100% why not try 70% and see how that works? Or still too little, make it higher, too much? Make it lower, that would have done much better keeping their unique flare, as well as keeping their timing on par with most others.

Paying to call in a truck is also a good move, removing suppression from Kubel, again I'm all for that.

As I see it, the flak HT now acts as your suppression platform, say what you will to its performance, but it can still suppress, and comes at T2/T3(always mix up OKW tech arrangement), the Luchs then comes as your T-70/M5 Stuart style AI/Chaser tank. Your AT would be handled by Raketen or Shrek'd up Volks until your armor comes out, the tech revamp, and the way the trucks come on was good, the change to resource income was not good, again, take and modify the penalty, but don't remove it. Thats my 2 cents, and this is all coming from an Axis Player.

Honestly if you ask me, as an Axis player even I think this revamp is now a terrible idea, mainly the resource penalty change.

The Tech changes IMO are actually good, the resource penalty? No... instead of making it 100% why not try 70% and see how that works? Or still too little, make it higher, too much? Make it lower, that would have done much better keeping their unique flare, as well as keeping their timing on par with most others.

Paying to call in a truck is also a good move, removing suppression from Kubel, again I'm all for that.

As I see it, the flak HT now acts as your suppression platform, say what you will to its performance, but it can still suppress, and comes at T2/T3(always mix up OKW tech arrangement), the Luchs then comes as your T-70/M5 Stuart style AI/Chaser tank. Your AT would be handled by Raketen or Shrek'd up Volks until your armor comes out, the tech revamp, and the way the trucks come on was good, the change to resource income was not good, again, take and modify the penalty, but don't remove it. Thats my 2 cents, and this is all coming from an Axis Player.

+1

2. Please, rush Luchs and see what happens against players who know how to mine.

And see what happens against players who know minesweeper exist.

Please...

you can also put all five vets into three, by increaseing the veterancy requirements a lot.
Imagine Obers vet3 with sprint and healing

Volksgrenadiers
Fallschirmjäger
Jäger Light Infantry
Obersoldaten
MG34 Heavy Machine Gun Team
Raktenwerfer 43 Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher
7.5cm le.IG 18 Infantry Support Gun
SdKfz 251/17 Flak Half-Track
Flammpanzer 38 “Hetzer”
Flakpanzer IV Ostwind
Jagdpanzer IV/70
Panzer IV Ausf. J Medium Tank
Panther PzKpfw V Medium Tank
Tiger B “Königstiger”

14 units were changed. That's the majority, hence most is the correct term as it means Greatest in number.

2. Removed suppression is a nerf, it could win engagements against several units even if you had less units on the field due better micro and positiong. Now it can cap and push. Yet a RE squad behind green cover is enough to scare it off. The MG34 on it can't kill a sniper even if you chase him over the whole map.

3. Again this theorycraft masters discussion? No competive good player will ever skip light vehicles, so your fallacy makes no sense here. Meta in the preview revolves around OKW going T3-T2-T4, while USF go Captain-ambu-bar/zooks-major

4. Luchs was losing against t70 & stuart already before, now its losing by a huge margin. Flat out nerf. Sure its design is to fight infantry but likewise it shouldn't be helpless that fill out the complete same margin. Your ludicrous Sherman / Brummbär comparision perfectly fits also for the T70 as it has the same role as a Luchs.

5. For me its a buff, for 3vs3+ heroes its a nerf.

6. Not arguing about theorycrafting semantics. OKW have at the moment even more MP than in the preview and yet are the weakest factions. If you had played the preview you'd notice that investing into light vehicles is a MP dump for OKW. And if you fail to force the OKW player to get light vehicles you do something wrong.

7. I use the .50 cal in every linear build I go. It's a great HMG, with good dps. You can ask even Firesparks I've build two in order to keep okw hordes back in the first preview patch version. Just because you are unable to utilize this unit it doesn't mean others are too. Against Ostheer a linear tech build is still stronger than the Captain only build.

typical immature ad hominem. Play the game, play the preview. Mr theorycraft master. I wonder why you hide your playercard nowadays, as you were showing it in the past.
If you check out mine, you'd noticed I'm top 100 with allies in my preferred game mode. If you'd check my past games, you'd notice I have been playing constantly allies lately. While you don't seem to play the game at all, or even remotely the preview patch.

1. I would count KT, JP and Obers as untounched units and it that case we have 11 real nerf, 9 without a nerf and 3 which are still powerful vet 5 game winners.
2. It's just a different role. Right now it's easy to inflict small bleed on the enemy while Kubel needs only repairs. It may be weaker but it's not useless.
3. I find T2+T4 into Pz4 rush very effective since my enemy will have Stuart at the same time.
4. Luchs was always losing to T70 and Stuart by design. Why could whine why Stuart is not as powerful agasint infantry as luchs.
6. With T1 raketen, volks blob and cheap T4 it's quite easy to repel enemy's pressure for light vehicle.
7. I did not asku you when was the last time you ve use it. I asked you when was the last time you saw it. By the way, if USF meta is Cpt/Ambu/Racks/Major why you go for 50cal every game?

I did play, and I dont hide (did not realize it was set as private). And there is nothing ad hominem. It's just truth. Just asa reminder when you said that JPIV camo is perfectly fine and just attack ground, when you said that allied mediums still are earlier on the field than OKW tanks (but they are not) or even right now saying that MP is now heavy on MP for teching while still it's cheaper than rest. Simple facts in OKW favour which have nothing to do with reality.
+ Ive never seen you talking about UP allied units or nerfs yet you are alwasy to defend axis' units

Not to mention bullshit arguments that units' vet 5 was nerfed. Sure it was, for example, Ostwind's. Yet somehow at vet 5 it's still much more powerful than OST one. And many other units which still receive huge advantage at vet 5 versus vet 3.

I will miss the old Kubel as a fast suppression plateform, easy to relocate and ideal to trap several units... sigh, let's #adapt™.
Concerning the OP and the unjustified Vet5, i barely see the problem as other faction also have "unjustified" advantages (6mansquads, free US squads, etc.) To continue on the subject i ll join the ranks of thoses who rarely see a Vet 4-5 squad in OKW (except on the VG). Still, the upgrades provided leaves me cold and i would prefer a Pfaust on VG rather than a long therm hypothetical bonus.

Koz.