OKW Vet 5 justified (December Update)?

I'm talking about OKW not needing compensations for penalties that do not exist anymore.

If you don't see anything wrong with faction with no penalties and compensation for penalties, then I don't think there is any way I can explain it to you.

This, essentially, was my point.

they started to nerf some units already (vet 4-5). My bet is next patch even more. OKW was from the beginning "special"

My point is that they shouldn't have Vet 5 AT ALL, now that the reason for it being there (the resource penalty) is gone. OKW's design philosophy was to make a late game German Army that was specialized and elite, but resource starved. This patch is poised to make them specialized and elite, with no penalties.

No viable suppression platform, Volks are only marginally better, Sturms are still the most expensive sweeper unit in the game, Luchs rush get shut down by T-70/Stuart rush. Leig is now a lawn decoration, JP4 is still useless. Need I go on?

Even though I don't agree with these points, they don't justify Vet 5. A better solution would be to address those problems directly.

The vet 5 doesn't bother me as much as the quality of armor they get with such little teaching. Even if you get rid of vet 5 it doesn't make up for the fact they are going to be rolling around with Panthers and super p4s 12 minutes in. There is no way for allies to keep up with that especially with schreks making life difficult for most allied mediums.

They need to bring back OKWs resource starved late game by upping the cost of their late armor.

The vet 5 doesn't bother me as much as the quality of armor they get with such little teaching. Even if you get rid of vet 5 it doesn't make up for the fact they are going to be rolling around with Panthers and super p4s 12 minutes in. There is no way for allies to keep up with that especially with schreks making life difficult for most allied mediums.

They need to bring back OKWs resource starved late game by upping the cost of their late armor.

Don't you have to pay for the half tracks to make HQ's now or did I read that wrong in notes? so wouldn't it be just that? Making them pay more for tiering?

I cant wait to play OKW this patch, I've been meaning to up my OKW rank and this will be such a roflstomp

Hint; It's here to stay.


Another hint; Reaching vet 4 still unreachable, so calm the fuck down

Hint; It's here to stay.


Another hint; Reaching vet 4 still unreachable, so calm the fuck down

People said the same thing about resource penalties, but here we are.

1v1 isn't the only game mode.

Just wanted to get feedback from people who've been playing the December Balance Mod because I personally haven't had much time to play COH2 myself lately, let alone the balance mod; Is OKW's Vet 5 system balanced (or rather, justified), now that they have 100% resource income? The most popular argument in favor of Vet 5 was OKW's crippled economic system, but seeing as how it's gone now, I don't see how having Vet 5 units is fair to the other factions in the game. Wouldn't this make OKW OP as f*ck?

How many times did you see vet 3-4-5 kübel, flak half-trak, panzer2, king tiger, command panther, sturmtiger,sturmpioneer etc?

Imo there is no point of vet 3, 4 or 5 because most of the time most units never get there before the game ends.

How many times did you see vet 3-4-5 kübel, flak half-trak, panzer2, king tiger, command panther, sturmtiger,sturmpioneer etc?

Imo there is no point of vet 3, 4 or 5 because most of the time most units never get there before the game ends.

I've actually seen plenty of vet5 AA HTs and it requires only bit of awareness to get spios to vet5.

P2 doesn't really matter, its not like any light reliably ever gets over vet1.

This "pls nerf OKW" thread before the patch is even out . The butthurt is real.

This "pls nerf OKW" thread before the patch is even out . The butthurt is real.

True, but its not hard to deduce from the fact that OKW got resource penelties removed with no nerf to units/vet/sidegrades as going to be a problem.

I really don't mind since I want to get my OKW rank higher so this is perfect for me, what I'm more worried about is the nerfs that WILL COME and will probably be overnerfs.

None of the OKW bonuses are justified without a cost. In past games you paid a real cost (fuel and munitions) and a opportunity cost (timing of units). To offset this you had cheap tech to keep you in the game, and lots of bonuses. Now you get all those bonuses at no cost, while other factions literally have to pay to have those things. How, and I mean this, can any faction keep up?

OKW should feel resource starved by having to pay for all these upgrades, all over the place. You want healing, fine here it is for x fuel and y mp. You want vet 4, fine just pay x fuel and y mp, and you can start to use it. You want panthers, no problem, just pay x fuel and y mp and you can unlock it. You want a giant suppressing gun that has 40 range and can penetrate tanks on your TIER UPGRADE? Not an issue, here just pay for that too. It can have all this stuff but it should come at cost.

The Luchs is still a devastating chase unit. It is the first unit that can safely ignore base defenses and chase infantry all the way home. How will Brits stop it? If it doesn't hit a mine a retreating unit is always going to be wiped. At vet 1 it can cloak and disappear anyway.

Also saying, well vet 4 and 5 are rare so who cares. Is like saying, well the unit is OP but it is not able to appear on the field often so when it does who cares that the opposing team will just lose even if they played better? Imagine if the Croc got 5 levels of vet, people would be screaming in the forums and a hotfix would be needed. In team games vet 5 is extremely common especially on larger heavier German vehicles.

No viable suppression platform, Volks are only marginally better, Sturms are still the most expensive sweeper unit in the game, Luchs rush get shut down by T-70/Stuart rush. Leig is now a lawn decoration, JP4 is still useless. Need I go on?

You're new to the game aren't you?

True, but its not hard to deduce from the fact that OKW got resource penelties removed with no nerf to units/vet/sidegrades as going to be a problem.

I really don't mind since I want to get my OKW rank higher so this is perfect for me, what I'm more worried about is the nerfs that WILL COME and will probably be overnerfs.

-vet 4 & 5 nerfed on most units.
-suppression from Kübel removed (which means weaker early game), especially in 2vs2+ games kübel rush was really stupid on maps like steppes, hill 313
-JP4 moved to Schwere Panzer HQ, that means tank counter is delayed
-Luchs cost increase & pen nerf, e.g. Stuart & T70 win every time against it
-KT limit to one, affects severly 3vs3+ games
-MP tech costs increased, while having higher reinforce cost on volks
-leig suppression removed, no stock HMG, which makes blobbing against OKW rewarding

Will be OKW stronger with the changes? Definately, but that was the point of the revamp.

Also if you want to remove 4 & 5 pls remove also all other unique faction characteristics in this game, e.g. vehicle crews, 6 men squads, emplacements etc.

time for the return of 85%+ axis winrates in team games

This "pls nerf OKW" thread before the patch is even out . The butthurt is real.

Pls, tell me where I said nerf OKW. No really, quote me. All I asked was what is the justification of Vet 5 now that resource penalties are gone.

None of the OKW bonuses are justified without a cost. In past games you paid a real cost (fuel and munitions) and a opportunity cost (timing of units). To offset this you had cheap tech to keep you in the game, and lots of bonuses. Now you get all those bonuses at no cost, while other factions literally have to pay to have those things. How, and I mean this, can any faction keep up?

OKW should feel resource starved by having to pay for all these upgrades, all over the place. You want healing, fine here it is for x fuel and y mp. You want vet 4, fine just pay x fuel and y mp, and you can start to use it. You want panthers, no problem, just pay x fuel and y mp and you can unlock it. You want a giant suppressing gun that has 40 range and can penetrate tanks on your TIER UPGRADE? Not an issue, here just pay for that too. It can have all this stuff but it should come at cost.

The Luchs is still a devastating chase unit. It is the first unit that can safely ignore base defenses and chase infantry all the way home. How will Brits stop it? If it doesn't hit a mine a retreating unit is always going to be wiped. At vet 1 it can cloak and disappear anyway.

Also saying, well vet 4 and 5 are rare so who cares. Is like saying, well the unit is OP but it is not able to appear on the field often so when it does who cares that the opposing team will just lose even if they played better? Imagine if the Croc got 5 levels of vet, people would be screaming in the forums and a hotfix would be needed. In team games vet 5 is extremely common especially on larger heavier German vehicles.

Well its partially reasonable/relevant , firstly why should you suffer a resource penalty the full length of the game for vet bonuses rarely achieved? Would you choose that if you had a choice? Probably not. Volks atm are shit, they are spammed for impact and dare I say only good with high vet? It's not always about how good a faction is but how it contrasts with the opposition

At the end of the day its getting this much needed rework for a reason.. The whole resource penalty for crap isn't working. And Allied is too strong.

Vet5 is in place because their nonvet stats sucks.


CASE CLOSED, MOURN AND MOVE ON

OKW by design is OP. According to Relic best early game, and devastating lategame with super tanks. Now that there's no resource penalty, what's the weakness other than a lack of support weapons?

If they're designed like this now, units need to be designed to take skill/positioning to use, or prices need to be ramped up.

-vet 4 & 5 nerfed on most units.
-suppression from Kübel removed (which means weaker early game), especially in 2vs2+ games kübel rush was really stupid on maps like steppes, hill 313
-JP4 moved to Schwere Panzer HQ, that means tank counter is delayed
-Luchs cost increase & pen nerf, e.g. Stuart & T70 win every time against it
-KT limit to one, affects severly 3vs3+ games
-MP tech costs increased, while having higher reinforce cost on volks
-leig suppression removed, no stock HMG, which makes blobbing against OKW rewarding

Will be OKW stronger with the changes? Definately, but that was the point of the revamp.

Also if you want to remove 4 & 5 pls remove also all other unique faction characteristics in this game, e.g. vehicle crews, 6 men squads, emplacements etc.

1. Units whose veterancy was not touched:
Sturmpioneers
Fusiliers
Puma
Stuka zu fuss
Luchs
Sturmtiger
Pak43
Command Pz 5
Jadgtiger

Units just slighly touched:
KT
Obers (still vet 4 suppress)
JP IV still has completly broken camo.

I hardly say "most units' veterancy was nefred"

2. Removed suppression is not "a nerf" because now it has different role. For example you can chase SU sniper, how this is a nerf? I find it as a buff.

3. Yes, that delay of JPIV which still arrives faster than first Sherman. Please, tell me what tanks you want to counter when JPIV hits the field before first allied medium.

4. Emmmm... Luchas is not designed to fight other lights, opposite to Stuart or T70 It's like saying that Brummbar is going to lose vs Sherman but Brummbar is not designed to fight Shermans.
By the way, first T70 (assuming there is no molotovs nor at nade upgrade) need 155F. Luchs needs only 135F. Now add molos or AT nades...

5. Whining about limited KT

6. MP Tech cost for OKW is 600MP (Med HQ + Flak HQ. 900M with all trucks). SU MP cost to get T4 is 640MP. Now add medics and at least 1 upgrade (which OKW already has) and we have 1015MP.
USF? 2 Officers (Lt/Cpt + Mjr) with healing cost 690MP (you may add nades/racks and it will be 840MP). Tell me one more time about high MP cost.

7. What stock MG USF have? Or maybe different question. How many times have you seen 50cal in last 6 months?

The level of being OKW fanboy is out of the scale.

Removed suppression is not "a nerf" because now it has different role. For example you can chase SU sniper, how this is a nerf? I find it as a buff.

It's literally so blatantly obvious it was nerfed they lowered the mp and made it cost 0 fuel, suppression is way better than adding some armor, it forces a retreat.