Does the T-34/76 need love?

T-34/76 was almost never used because:
1) You can get T-70 earlier. And the T-70 better against infantry.
2) You can get SU-76 earlier. And the SU-76 better against tanks.
3) Ram just lame, you 32 ton tank may no crash even car
Show Spoiler

4) Vet 1 will not help you in battle.
5) T-34-76 have better HP&armor then T-70 or SU-76. But it does not matter. Because german AT too good: shreks blobs, PAK shooting through building, heavy TD and etc. This is the reason that people use KV-8 instead T-34-76.
6)T-34-76 is worst med. tank in all game.

Personal opinion: reworking Ram and change 1 vet for something useful.

+1

There is no point on teching tier 3 + tier 4 to do the useless t34 that fails in general AI and AT. Need several rework, hard to see the most common tank in WW2 never used on every high level game.

+1

There is no point on teching tier 3 + tier 4 to do the useless t34 that fails in general AI and AT. Need several rework, hard to see the most common tank in WW2 never used on every high level game.

Please Relic is overwhelmed, Their last update of the october preview included 3 changes(before 6).
But ye, The t34 needs a rework. Increase fuel cost to 100 and give more AI power.

The SU-85 also needs to be looked at. It really underperforms compared to the Jagdpanzer. In fact it should be a real threat to the Königstiger but it is not at all imho. Two SU-76 do this job much better. Moreover the T-34/76 should get back an effective ram ability. At least it should be able to inflict an engine crit to the enemy tank.

Get an SU 85 to veterancy 2, then review this comment

Vet 2 makes it fire like a machine gun!

+1

There is no point on teching tier 3 + tier 4 to do the useless t34 that fails in general AI and AT. Need several rework, hard to see the most common tank in WW2 never used on every high level game.

To be honest every medium tanks does that. these days its all about the specialised TD's and AI tanks

Its because soviets and ostheer have next to no incentive for going tier 4. T4 for these factions need to have like an upgrade for grens and conscripts because soviets and ostheer have to put in the most work to get to these tiers and don't get shit out of them.

5 man sidegrade for ostheer, coh1 bar riflemen upgrade for soviets that gives all conscripts dp28s for free. Thats my idea. More people who be compelled to go t4 and build whats in it.

Its because soviets and ostheer have next to no incentive for going tier 4. T4 for these factions need to have like an upgrade for grens and conscripts because soviets and ostheer have to put in the most work to get to these tiers and don't get shit out of them.

5 man sidegrade for ostheer, coh1 bar riflemen upgrade for soviets that gives all conscripts dp28s for free. Thats my idea. More people who be compelled to go t4 and build whats in it.

good idea, but t34/76 belongs on t3 in my opinion

T-34 needs its stats for accuracy on the move back.

I think the whole t4 is underwhelming because you have to babysit both your t-34 and your su-85 until they become vet 2 where they become tolerable to use against Axis.

Take vet 2 bonuses and integrate them into the basic unit. Better AI for t-34, more RoF for SU-85. Remove or reduce vet 2.

Also t-34 is supposed to be spammable and I can get behind that principle. But manpower is its prohibitive factor. Reduce manpower to 240 and pop to 8 (I know Relic is cautious of spamming the tank with 8 pop, but I feel like it was in the right place)

How is SU-76 affecting T34/76 being utter shit?

Yes, 34/76 is cheap, but its still pretty menpower heavy and quite shitty, its unreliable unit for any situation and unless you have like 4, you'll have it underperform.

It indirectly affects it because it causes them to come out later when they are even more useless. If su-76s weren't good, then the fuel you'd save not getting them, would go towards teching and t34s. At the moment, you get maybe one or two SU-76s and by the time you get T4, t34s wouldn't be very useful. I think that's the argument he is making. If they were good, then obviously you might want to rush them anyway, but it doesn't help that su-76s are so good right now that it's much more cost effective just getting those and only getting T4 for t34-85s or katys.

In a vacuum, they are pretty cheap for what they do, but their survivability is such a liability by the time they come out, that the resources spent is just a waste. I think the key to making them better is making ram useful again and better vet bonuses.

I'd love for them to be better at flanking. Making rotation and speed faster and close range pen better would be cool. I think ram always causing gun/engine destroyed on the t34 is dumb. If anything, I'd love for the crits that the T34 gets when ramming to match the vehicle that it hits. So if ram fails to pen a tank, then it shouldn't caused those crits. That might make it more viable. You're punished way too harshly for using ram. If not that, then maybe increasing the pen of ram as the health of the T34 goes down, so maybe you're more incentivized to use it as a last ditch maneuver as opposed to opening a battle with it like in the past when it was really good.

..

This brings me back to the days of ramming being the only way to reliably take on a tiger tanks

I'm gonna mix some of the post of what it needs to be done:

Teching up all the way is expensive manpower wise, and with the su-76 performing the way it does, players are just going for su-76s plus call-ins too much.

Lowering the manpower price of teching I think would help people go for more T4 units in general. As well as reducing pen on the SU-76 a bit, so players can't rely on them all game.

It's just that the T3 + KV8/IS2 combo is way more effective than teching up all the way. I'd like to see that the T34/76 gets a more consistent damage output (right now it sometimes doesn't hit anything 3 shots in a row and suddenly it kills 4/5 members). The Su85 should become a similar role to the Jagdpanzer. It's basically a more expensive version of the SU76. Katyusha is fine.

Finally, tweak ram.

My biggest problem with the t34 is it's effectiveness vs infantry

I am confident that for cost they can be utilized vs tanks well enough but vs infantry t34s struggle to kill much of anything. It can take many shots to kill even one model, Its not worth it to expend all that fuel and manpower on tech to get something that usually won't get 10 gren kills to pay for itself much less the tech cost included

On the rest of the tier, The katusha seems to be less potent than it once was though i havn't seen any direct changes to it in the changelog since they adjusted it from being super OP that one week. ninja nerfs? or just no more precision shot a big hinderance?

The SU85 needs some buffs but i think it's biggest problem is that soviets need tanks to deal with infantry, also an at gun costs about the same manpower but can rotate faster and will usually take more than 4 hits from a tank just to decrew and is therefore less risky than an su85 vs tanks making it typically the better choice

My biggest problem with the t34 is it's effectiveness vs infantry

I am confident that for cost they can be utilized vs tanks well enough but vs infantry t34s struggle to kill much of anything. It can take many shots to kill even one model, Its not worth it to expend all that fuel and manpower on tech to get something that usually won't get 10 gren kills to pay for itself much less the tech cost included

On the rest of the tier, The katusha seems to be less potent than it once was though i havn't seen any direct changes to it in the changelog since they adjusted it from being super OP that one week. ninja nerfs? or just no more precision shot a big hinderance?

The SU85 needs some buffs but i think it's biggest problem is that soviets need tanks to deal with infantry, also an at gun costs about the same manpower but can rotate faster and will usually take more than 4 hits from a tank just to decrew and is therefore less risky than an su85 vs tanks making it typically the better choice

If we buff the T-34 vs infantry, best to just make the MGs do a little bit more rather than the main cannon, though if there's one thing the T-34 does well it's crushing troops.

SU-85 overlaps too much with the SU-76 atm. Both fire quickly, have the same pen and both a relatively fragile when caught out of position. I know some people have suggested to change its vet to make it less of a rapid fire machine gun and have its base pen moved up. I would say it could be made closer to a Jagdpanzer where it's well-protected against other mediums frontally like it used to be, especially since it can no longer warp speed out of the area like it used to. Would help differentiate the SU-76 and 85 more as well.

It also needs its accuracy brought in line with all other TDs.

How about introducing a price correction mechanism based on unlocked tiers, to combat the "call in meta" ?

For example IS2 costs 640 manpower to call in.
Make it cost 1000 manpower without tiers3/4 unlocked, 800 manpower with just tier3 unlocked, 640 or less with tiers 3+4 unlocked. Or something like that.

That would diminish the economic advantage of waiting out for the call ins, and would reward players for teching up.
We would see t34 and other t4 units more often as a result.

How about introducing a price correction mechanism based on unlocked tiers, to combat the "call in meta" ?

For example IS2 costs 640 manpower to call in.
Make it cost 1000 manpower without tiers3/4 unlocked, 800 manpower with just tier3 unlocked, 640 or less with tiers 3+4 unlocked. Or something like that.

That would diminish the economic advantage of waiting out for the call ins, and would reward players for teching up.
We would see t34 and other t4 units more often as a result.

You're in the wrong thread.

The one you should be in is three steps to the left and 6 months to the past.

I do not understand what the problem is to recognize that a lot in the Soviet tech tree needs to be changed, because many things is simply outdated.

You're in the wrong thread.

The one you should be in is three steps to the left and 6 months to the past.

care to explain what that means>

It's just that the T3 + KV8/IS2 combo is way more effective than teching up all the way. I'd like to see that the T34/76 gets a more consistent damage output (right now it sometimes doesn't hit anything 3 shots in a row and suddenly it kills 4/5 members). The Su85 should become a similar role to the Jagdpanzer. It's basically a more expensive version of the SU76. Katyusha is fine.

Just move the Kv-8 from Shock Rifle, its braindead to have two call-ins in one commander. And it makes the other 20 commanders for Soviets useless.

when exactly do you reach vet 3 with the t34/76??

You're right, I haven't seen and used T47/76 for so long that I totally forgot how much it sucks. It could use both a price nerf and some accuracy buff (maybe on par with PzIV in terms of AI). Anyway, although Soviets are not weak, their meta is bad mostly because shitty T4 and powerful T3. A better T4 (Whether T34 is in T3 or T4) is required.