Does the T-34/76 need love?

If they're gonna be crap and tier 4 they should be cheap. Also, the 85 should be cheaper since its pretty mediocre as well. They don't stand up to the Panzer that well and cost more.

Soviets being able to field tons of crappy units doesn't work when they're expensive.

Nice joke ! wait, you was serious ?

Soviet medium fuel cost is 165/175

For comparison:
Ostheer is 175
USF is 155/165
and UKF is 130 (but has a lot of side tech)

So saying they come out the same time as heavies is a huge exaggeration. T-34s come out the same time as all other mediums.

Sorry if i make a misunderstood.
By "the same time as heavies" i was refering yo the fact that when the time to build T4 has come you are probably between 9-12 commander points and KV8(which i count as heavy) is aviable and IS2 is not very long to wait for.
Thoses statements where done on the basis of 1v1 play where the light/medium tank area is a little bit longer than in multiplayer.

But yes, i agree T34 is coming at the same time at other mediums if you beeline to it. But if you spend some time in T3, building 2-4 T3 tanks. Then T4 loose some of its value if the commander you choose has a heavy callin.

BTW Manpower teching costs are thus:

USSR: 640
Wher: 620
UKF: 460
USF: 440
OKW: 400

Now these can be a bit misleading.

USF usually will spend 150-250 on the upgrades or ambulance they need to not bleed out which can even their costs a bit to 600 levels.

UKF is similar in this aspect as well and will end up spending comparable manpower too with just 1 or 2 side teching and infantry upgrades.

Meanwhile whermacht won't have to spend anything on upgrades and will never spend more then 620 on teching. And in fact can actually lower the needed manpower cost by 80 - 200 if skipping tech. And OKW need never spend more then the base 400 manpower cost to reach T4 as they have no upgrades as well.

The thing is 640 is the best case scenario for soviets. It only gets higher from there with upgrades and healing. They are the only faction that will routinely be spending 700+ manpower on teching.

With that kind of cost it's no wonder they try to steer away from teching all the way. Especially when the T-34 needs numbers and momentum to stay relevant.

TLDR: Soviet manpower teching costs are too high and need to go down

But if you spend some time in T3, building 2-4 T3 tanks. Then T4 loose some of its value if the commander you choose has a heavy callin.

Then don't fucking do that then!

You don't see USF players building 3-4 stuarts or UKF building 3-4 AECs. I don't understand why so many soviet players think it's okay and that they should be able to pull out a medium in a decent amount of time after spamming light vehicles.

Then don't fucking do that then!

You don't see USF players building 3-4 stuarts or UKF building 3-4 AECs. I don't understand why so many soviet players think it's okay and that they should be able to pull out a medium in a decent amount of time after spamming light vehicles.

This

BTW Manpower teching costs are thus:

USSR: 640
Wher: 620
UKF: 460
USF: 440
OKW: 400

Now these can be a bit misleading.

USF usually will spend 150-250 on the upgrades or ambulance they need to not bleed out which can even their costs a bit to 600 levels.

UKF is similar in this aspect as well and will end up spending comparable manpower too with just 1 or 2 side teching and infantry upgrades.

Meanwhile whermacht won't have to spend anything on upgrades and will never spend more then 620 on teching. And in fact can actually lower the needed manpower cost by 80 - 200 if skipping tech. And OKW need never spend more then the base 400 manpower cost to reach T4 as they have no upgrades as well.

The thing is 640 is the best case scenario for soviets. It only gets higher from there with upgrades and healing. They are the only faction that will routinely be spending 700+ manpower on teching.

With that kind of cost it's no wonder they try to steer away from teching all the way. Especially when the T-34 needs numbers and momentum to stay relevant.

TLDR: Soviet manpower teching costs are too high and need to go down

Ost doesnt Need to spend 160mp 60 muni for heal too? From my subjective Experience Ost pays the most manpower and fuel wise for tech.

Ost doesnt Need to spend 160mp 60 muni for heal too? From my subjective Experience Ost pays the most manpower and fuel wise for tech.

I suppose I overlooked that, but still that's only 160 for healing wherever you need it. Soviet healing is 250 for only in the base. Not to mention molotovs and AT grenades which are 150 each, of which whermacht gets for free.

The soviet player will still be paying much more to accomplish what ostheer can do for less.

I suppose I overlooked that, but still that's only 160 for healing wherever you need it. Soviet healing is 250 for only in the base. Not to mention molotovs and AT grenades which are 150 each, of which whermacht gets for free.

The soviet player will still be paying much more to accomplish what ostheer can do for less.

And again forgot something.60mun is alot of resource(would weight it with 200mp, i mean u got a 220+manpower per minute income and mosly only 30 muni per Minute ) to spend. Especially as Ost when u need lmg on every gern and maybe a mine.
And yea grens dont need tech t2 to use Riffe Nades or Faust. Its a linear Tech i get it but to say it's free is just Not correct.

And again forgot something.60mun is alot of resource(would weight it with 200mp, i mean u got a 220+manpower per minute income and mosly only 30 muni per Minute ) to spend. Especially as Ost when u need lmg on every gern and maybe a mine.

If soviets want grenade, snare, and healing and reach a T-34 that will be 1190mp. For ostheer to have the same it's only 700mp + 60muni. That's not a lot USF needs 690mp + 25 fuel to get Major and ambulance and that's with 0 upgrades.

Point being we can shave off around 100 manpower to tech to T4 to premote T4 play. Seeing as it's rather weak and undesirable at the moment.

the same time your Puma reaches Vet 5

its quite easy with the puma imo

a vet t34/76 is borderline a miracle

same as KV1 / 8

If soviets want grenade, snare, and healing and reach a T-34 that will be 1190mp. For ostheer to have the same it's only 700mp + 60muni. That's not a lot USF needs 690mp + 25 fuel to get Major and ambulance and that's with 0 upgrades.

Point being we can shave off around 100 manpower to tech to T4 to premote T4 play. Seeing as it's rather weak and undesirable at the moment.

Would still not change a thing. all medium tanks have fallen out of favour for the dedicated ones.
Tier 4 soviets is pretty much the same as the ostheer tier 4. utility but not mandatory.

its quite easy with the puma imo

a vet t34/76 is borderline a miracle

same as KV1 / 8

Ni it isnt, but even so vet 4/5 for the puma is not useful anyway

Ni it isnt, but even so vet 4/5 for the puma is not useful anyway

More range and detection is not bad.

It is fine in my eyes, I use them quite often when I play Soviets. Usually get two or three of them. Works well in combination with double zis gun and a conscript spam.

i think it is its manpower cost that make it unapealing.

Think about it like 10 fuel more expensive stuart with more hp , at capability and ram (also raming ifnantry)

You cannot compare it to p4. its 45 fuel difference , its like comparing p4 and panther .

It is tank meant for spammin, however , 310 MP cost does not allow you to spam it late game if you want to reinforce 3 cons , shocks and maybe 1 maxim + upkeep on zis wall.

If we decrease mp cost to 250 i think it will be fine.

And Also maybe make it infantry sniper tank - low scatter so it always hit but really low ai so it kill only 1-2 models at time to give it more consistent damage.


Agains tanks its fine , 4 can swarm tiger really well.

Agains tanks its fine , 4 can swarm tiger really well.

1) 310x4=1240 mp + 80x4=320 fuel + 10x4=40 cap vs 640 mp + 260 fuel + 19 cap =
2) Four T-34-76 try swarming Tiger (or whatever) usually get stuck in each other

1) 310x4=1240 mp + 80x4=320 fuel + 10x4=40 cap vs 640 mp + 260 fuel + 19 cap =
2) Four T-34-76 try swarming Tiger (or whatever) usually get stuck in each other

Use 2 as main line tanks and 2 that flank for rear armor

1)You can see that the fuel of t34 is only 25 % more than fuel of tiger while mp cost is almost double as cost of tiger.
And thats the problem i pointed , they can fuel effectively trade with axis tanks (cause he will loose that tiger and you will lose 2-4 t34 /76 if there were some paks nearby , but that mp cost...)
One tiger less - 230 fuel
3 t34/76 less - 240 fuel (thats not bad for faction that have better map control [in 1 vs 1 often soviets have upper hand in early - mid game])


Also keep in mind that tiger comes after 230 fuel , while t 34 come after 80 fuel than after 80 fuel so you can 2 of them before tiger comes to gain mapcontrol , close harrasment play etc.
But then we dont compare in vacuum.


As i pointed , the problem is not its lethality or survivability . The problem is hight MP teching cost and t34/76 hight mp cost

It is fine in my eyes, I use them quite often when I play Soviets. Usually get two or three of them. Works well in combination with double zis gun and a conscript spam.

Replay please?

Replay please?

You will have to believe my word for it

1)You can see that the fuel of t34 is only 25 % more than fuel of tiger while mp cost is almost double as cost of tiger.

That about price tech in to T-34-76?

Use 2 as main line tanks and 2 that flank for rear armor

It's funny, I used the same method against the Panthers. One T-34-76 in the front and two on the flanks. Ramming then beast trying escape.
However, I found possible to use T-34-76 only only with support best soviets AT-infantry. I'm talking about the AT-partyzans. And that means two doctrines. No more no less.
I found T-34-76 good against HMG in houses and bunkers. And you may no fear Ostwind like counter(what happens if you use T-70). AT-partyzans will not give germans use they superior armor which usually can easily destroys T-34-76.

Bear in mind the superb M10 is cheap as well.