OKW Elite Infantry and some other Issues
2 Oct 2015, 13:50 PM
#41
Posts: 170
I agree with OP, but instead of lowering vet requirements I'd suggest buffing the veterancy level bonuses themselves by removing gimmicks like falls' camouflage and replacing them with actual combat bonuses. This way it's a steady rise in effectiveness of a unit from vet0 to vet5 instead of random bonuses and abilities slapped on it with occasional performance spikes. It'll make them almost unbeatable by non-elite infantry, but that's what combined arms are for.
2 Oct 2015, 14:49 PM
#42
Posts: 1653
the cloack makes the falls more durable
2 Oct 2015, 15:33 PM
#43
Posts: 89
Thing is, some units even unveted at good positioning like Obber and Falls will kill even most veted allied troops.
Agree with the RNG on squad wipes such as mines, artys and He shells though, something could be done about that, other than increasing health or squads number (that would break the game).
Agree with the RNG on squad wipes such as mines, artys and He shells though, something could be done about that, other than increasing health or squads number (that would break the game).
Team game player.
All factions Player.
All factions Player.
2 Oct 2015, 19:29 PM
#44
Posts: 770
For example Imperial Dane casted OKW against UKF featuring Vet5 Obers recently.
Im not saying its impossible to get vet 5 units im saying that its far to difficult to get vet 5 units. But we really need some numbers here to propely talk about this can some body dig in the xp requirements for volks vg's and obers. And to make a good comparison give the ones for shocks commando's and rifles as well.
2 Oct 2015, 19:33 PM
#45
Posts: 521
Wouldn't that be fun, MG34s backed by ISGs.
2 Oct 2015, 19:52 PM
#46
4 Posts: 444
Sturms: could get a lower vet3-vet5 xp requirements.
Medkit package could be less expensive. But i'll rather it be heal with AoE, slower, cancelling if entering in combat. The idea is to depend less on Medic HQ at the expense of munitions.
Sturm Offizier: give it vet levels. Once it levels up, further reduces the chances of retreating after getting the officer killed. Vet2-3 50/50 chance of retreating/pinned. Vet4-5 50/50 between suppressed/pinned.
Panzerfussilier: no change. They are fine.
Flak Halftrack: +20hp. Did anyone checked it's performance against units in buildings nowadays?
Falls: remove building spawn. Make them paradrop. Reduce call in cost to actual unit cost. Change i might consider > Give them 2 MP40s and retain same DPS as now.
Ober: reduce by 20mp. Remove passive suppression at vet4. Replace with same suppression ability as 1919 Paratroopers.
MG34: leave performance.
1-Swap Kubel with MG34. We had already swapped SturmTiger with PIV so i see no problem in this regard.
2-You could leave the Kubel, have an upgrade which unlocks MG34s (125mp; 10f) and replace call in MG34 with MG42.
Amazing idea's, well thought out.
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2 Oct 2015, 21:25 PM
#47
Posts: 1439
Im not saying its impossible to get vet 5 units im saying that its far to difficult to get vet 5 units. But we really need some numbers here to propely talk about this can some body dig in the xp requirements for volks vg's and obers. And to make a good comparison give the ones for shocks commando's and rifles as well.
No it is not. I get you would like to have all your units Vet5 in a single game but I don't think OKW was designed this way. What's more there are units that gain veterancy ridiculously fast, like mentioned Fals or Puma.
Puma gets to Vet5 in almost all of my OKW games and I'm not even trying.
2 Oct 2015, 23:09 PM
#48
Posts: 770
No it is not. I get you would like to have all your units Vet5 in a single game but I don't think OKW was designed this way. What's more there are units that gain veterancy ridiculously fast, like mentioned Fals or Puma.
Puma gets to Vet5 in almost all of my OKW games and I'm not even trying.
I didnt say that. I said the requirements are beyond reason. Talking about it is pointless without hard data anyway. And i dont give a fuck what you do with you puma or any other of your claims.
3 Oct 2015, 03:20 AM
#49
Posts: 721
Amazing idea's, well thought out.
lol,you think anyone will fall for that..??? hard try mate
3 Oct 2015, 03:21 AM
#50
Posts: 721
No it is not. I get you would like to have all your units Vet5 in a single game but I don't think OKW was designed this way. What's more there are units that gain veterancy ridiculously fast, like mentioned Fals or Puma.
Puma gets to Vet5 in almost all of my OKW games and I'm not even trying.
3 Oct 2015, 07:44 AM
#51
Posts: 1439
I didnt say that. I said the requirements are beyond reason. Talking about it is pointless without hard data anyway. And i dont give a fuck what you do with you puma or any other of your claims.
Not giving a fuck is a right attitude to have in a discussion. This will achieve plenty for you.
5 Oct 2015, 13:45 PM
#52
Posts: 66
Why not make Axis Elite troops 5-man teams. The 6-man teams of Allied Elite Units help their survivability, why not the same for Falls and Obers and Storms? All of the OPs objections that are valid would be mitigated to some extent without changing the dynamic and uniqueness of the Factions. keep damage output and abilities the same spread over 5 instead of 4 models that survive more, like their Allied counterparts.
5 Oct 2015, 22:16 PM
#53
Posts: 129
Excellent points OP. Before I quit CoH recently I've been playin OKW exclusively since their release. In literally hundreds of games, I've gotten only a "few" times vet 5 with Obers, and their tank counterpart KT. Vet 5 system is broken and definitely not worth the resources penalty.
8 Oct 2015, 22:35 PM
#54
Posts: 143
Awful baseline inf, and their so called elite obers loses to vet3 cons.
But then againg OKW was getting constantly nerfed for a year with each patch, so this is what you get. An unplayable, inconsistent faction with no promising "unique" features. A 'fast' Porsche-powered T70 ends the game against them
But then againg OKW was getting constantly nerfed for a year with each patch, so this is what you get. An unplayable, inconsistent faction with no promising "unique" features. A 'fast' Porsche-powered T70 ends the game against them
8 Oct 2015, 23:25 PM
#55
Posts: 1384
Vetting up is mostly about doing damage. Falls and Obers are both quite capable of doing it, and you're not going to see a vet 3 squad facing off against obers unless the obers are coming out super super late game. (In which case you're probably taking too long to tech.)
I think they're fine at the moment.
There's plenty of playstyles with OKW, it just requires you to get outside your comfort zone slightly.
I think they're fine at the moment.
There's plenty of playstyles with OKW, it just requires you to get outside your comfort zone slightly.
8 Oct 2015, 23:55 PM
#56
Posts: 2561
Wouldn't it just be easier. To speed up the vet rates of certain units without redoing the entire vet system. Seems like that would make it a lot easier to control from a balance perspective instead of taking a hammer to the whole vet system and chancing screwing up the whole balance.
9 Oct 2015, 00:04 AM
#57
Posts: 1384
Wouldn't it just be easier. To speed up the vet rates of certain units without redoing the entire vet system. Seems like that would make it a lot easier to control from a balance perspective instead of taking a hammer to the whole vet system and chancing screwing up the whole balance.
No, Even vet 0 these guys perform at the appropriate point. And their vet bonuses are also much stronger generally to compensate for how long a game has to be for them to see higher levels of vet.
9 Oct 2015, 00:16 AM
#58
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Wouldn't it just be easier. To speed up the vet rates of certain units without redoing the entire vet system. Seems like that would make it a lot easier to control from a balance perspective instead of taking a hammer to the whole vet system and chancing screwing up the whole balance.
I think XP based off damage is calculated from the damager's worth against the target's, so I think technically they'd mess around with XP requirements like they did with OKW vehicles before.
9 Oct 2015, 11:45 AM
#59
Posts: 770
No, Even vet 0 these guys perform at the appropriate point. And their vet bonuses are also much stronger generally to compensate for how long a game has to be for them to see higher levels of vet.
That bolded part is debatable, i would say slightly stronger. but the key problem is that the okw has to sacrifice their ammo and fuel income for this supposed vet. Vet that's nearly unattainable for most okw units and at the moment you see vet 3 rifle and IS blobs left and right. In my opnion the horrendous performance of the okw in general is because of scaling issues.
You cannot expect vet 1 obers to deal with vet 3 IS's ever.
9 Oct 2015, 11:59 AM
#60
Posts: 1653
Their Elite infantry is just clear bad. Why should I make those units, when I better can spam sturmpio's which are way better for what they can do.
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