Now to await OKW only players who come in and say its fine, while lieing about a time when it was ok.
Honestly British arty should make up in number of shells to make up the lack of acc or damange. A small decrees in mun for abilitys to get the base howtzers to fire and increase the number of shells for both the base and sexton. Im. Talking about 9-12 shots per gun.
It should be a fear for the axis when that red smoke pops up, not a "Eh whatever".
That would simply make it more deadly to structures, infantry and tanks still wouldn't care about the shells. Just a straight, noticeable buff to AOE is the way. |
It's more of a problem with the 25pounder power level, if it was better the doctrine (and probably the whole british faction) would be fixed. |
and i'm telling you after having played the brits as well: the AEC does not need buffs.
if you need an AEC to deal with Luchs, get one. Your cromwell will be delayed, so you might need something as a stopgap, and since you already have an AEC, you can also elect to build a second one. together they'll arguably be as good as the cromwell at AT. if you don't need AT, you can simply rely on MP only units until you get the cromwell.
every other faction has to make choices like this as well. the brits never had to in previous patches, which is the only reason people complain about the AEC. it's not as ridiculously OP as all the other brit units were, so in comparison it feels weak. the AEC was never supposed to be a medium tank hunter or an anti infantry plattform. and, again, for the 10000th time: it has a role, just like the 222 for example, and it fulfills its role just fine without any buffs (like you said, counter a luchs, maybe a FHT or 222, though i'd claim that neither of the latter actually needs an AEC to get countered, but anyways...). the only real "problem" with the AEC is that against ostheer you pretty much never need it (no vehicles pose a threat until you can get something better than the AEC), against OKW right now you might need it vs the Luchs (because 6pdr/sniper/mines as a counter to the luchs force you to play way more defensive and give up map control, delaying your teching alternatives). it is, like you said, more of a reactionary, niche unit. and if you buff the AEC, it will most likely be too strong after the inevitable OKW nerfs. the unit IS fine.
For the 10000th time: 600 MP obers would fulfill their role too, but their cost would prohibit their use.
I also doubt we can really come to a consensus here when you believe that the puma has a different role than an AEC. Not that I disrespect your opinion, but this arguement will probably just come down to personal opinion, which is why that poll is there. |
Do i really have to make a video of that as well? Because its not true. Brit sniper takes a bit longer to take the first shot (0.5s on average if i remember correctly) and has a longer reload along with less bullets in the magazine. HE FIRES FASTER. Even with a reload time twice as long and a magazine size less than half of what thebost sniper has, the brit sniper is quicker at killing 4 dudes than the ost sniper. Factor in reloading and they're just as fast at killing 6 dudes. Go on, test it.
Why would making several aecs not make sense? I explicitly mentioned that as an alternative to rushing better vehicles? And again, this is a choice all factions have to make. If i try skipping t2 as ost and have no pak or pgrens with schrecks... well, guess what happens when a vehicle hits the field.
Neither lmg nor faust or nade are for free... or if you are talking about unlocking the option, you have to tech t2... so while it is a tech that you will get in any case, it mught come later than you'll want.
I could make points for everything you mentioned, but in the end it was just an example for "asymmetrical balance" and how the allies were getting the best in almost every case, apart from the aec.
The snipers have very similar pure DPS, and yet I see the ost sniper superior vs infantry because it comes out earlier and has an semi-instant 100% accuracy shot (that means 100% wipe on any 2 man squad). It doesn't change anything, we can make arguments all day, that's just asymmetrical balance. Grass is usually greener on the other side.
You wrote something like "if you don't like AEC, get a cromwell". One makes the AEC in response to a fast luchs/FHT/whatever, and it's not like you'll need 2 AECs against them. They don't have any uses outside of that, that's why it doesn't make sense to make multiple.
If you tech BP1 when you have the fuel, I doubt you'll even have 60 muni for an lmg42. Since you'll make it anyways, you should just get it at the earliest possible time, so the gren upgrades will arrive even sooner than they can be used.
You are intentionally (or unintentionally?) ignoring every good aspect of axis and every bad aspect of allies in your posts. That way most allied units will indeed come out to be superior, but if you just play a significant quantity of games as every faction, you will come to realise that the game is, in fact, well-balanced, and for those few wrongly balanced units that you find, feel free to create a separate thread. This one is not axis vs allies, it's about the AEC. |
only that it isn't. both ost and brit sniper get oneshot by each other. even if it was legit asymmetrical balance, you are still cherrypicking here, because, like i mentioned above, there are multiple other instances where allied units are quite clearly and obviously stronger despite exact same role and similar costs. again, you only use the argument when it fits your narrative and not in general.
Ost sniper has a higher fire rate, therefore it is more effectvie vs infantry. Also, where do you see these "quite clearly stronger allied units"?
It does serve its purpose, because it IS countering light vehicles, it just cannot take on medium tanks on its own (and again, if it could, it would be OP, even by your definition). it very well can take on medium tanks if you have two or three of them, negating the argument that the unlock costs can be added to the price.
Refer to the 600 MP Obers that serve their purpose too. Making 2 or 3 AECs does not make sense by your own definition, you'll just be better off with a cromwell, because its single advantage over a cromwell is its arrival time.
And i want rifle vet for grens... and 5 man squad upgrades, bars instead of lmg42s, a sniper that can counter light vehicles, emplacements that have a "can't kill me" button, forward retreat points with weapon racks and reinforcing, having to spend only 30 muni once to be able to heal all my squads all the time, cloakable infantry that is deployable everywhere on the map with insane dps, tanks that can survive roundabout 20 pak shots and throw grenades, indestructable artillery pieces in my base and so on and so forth.
Rifles have stronger vet and combat effectiveness, grens are cheaper, and they get literally everything for free (lmg42, nades, faust). Why'd you want bars instead of lmg42 is beyond me since the lmg is clearly better. Ost doesn't need 5 man upgrades because their mainline infantry is cost-effective without them, emplacements with brace on have as much EHP as an okw truck, idk why you have trouble killing it, its so easy for allies after all . FRP with reinforce costs 450 manpower, I'd really love if that was also a tech structure... I also can't understand why you consider weapon racks as an upside, opposing to upgrading on the field. Commandos cost 500 MP, churchills can throw nade at about penal satchel range and have a bad gun, and don't get me started on the all-powerful 25pounders that cost 45 muni to fire and won't kill a bunker off of that.
The only thing that could be arguably strictly better is tommies' self-healing, but it is negated by the fact that it's the only source of healing, leading to awkward situations where the only tommy is on the other side of the map and you have 3 unhealed squads sitting in the base. |
it works both ways. ost sniper is same price as brit sniper, yet brit sniper can counter vehicles. thats not asymmetrical balance, that's an underperforming (or overperforming?) unit. MVGame.
...and again, because i haven't said it often enough: the AEC serves it's purpose, it doesn't need a buff. i even doubt very much it needs a cost reduction, for the points mentioned above.
yet ost sniper is more powerful vs infantry and other snipers, legit asymmetrical balance there.
No it doesn't serve its purpose, which is countering light vehicles and reliably fighting mediums. Also, if you change obers price to 600 MP, will they still serve their purpose? Yes. WIll they be a balanced unit? No.
I don't think it really needs a buff. It has its role and it does it well enough. It's also fairly cheap, considering.
It's a great harassment unit, solid enough against medium vehicles too. Does enough to scare off infantry without AT.
Comparing it to the Puma is silly. Different army, different tech, general trend of allied vehicles < german vehicles etc.
The AEC hits the field about a minute sooner than an OKW puma and much sooner than the wehrmacht one. It's also cheaper on an individual basis, and thus building multiple AEC's is very cost effective to counter Puma's.
It's definitely not good at all at harassing and anti-infantry and it can't fight mediums due to 40 range.
The time it hits the field is irrelevant as long as it can get there before light vehicles (luchs), because it is a reaction-type unit. See a luchs/flamer HT - build the AEC. It doesn't make sense to get more than 1 for the same reason - so the teching cost is a downside. |
Still no reasons for buffs. All i hear is "but puma is better, i want puma!". And i want rifle vet for grens... and 5 man squad upgrades, bars instead of lmg42s, a sniper that can counter light vehicles, emplacements that have a "can't kill me" button, forward retreat points with weapon racks and reinforcing, having to spend only 30 muni once to be able to heal all my squads all the time, cloakable infantry that is deployable everywhere on the map with insane dps, tanks that can survive roundabout 20 pak shots and throw grenades, indestructable artillery pieces in my base and so on and so forth.
Also: your tech cost thingie makes no sense.
Why do I have to explain the basics of RTS to you?
All of your examples illustrate different units with different roles, having different strengths. That's called "asymmetrical balance". The puma and the AEC have the exact same roles, and their performance to cost ratios are radically different. That's not asymmetrical balance, that's an underperforming unit.
The explanation for the tech cost thingy is above in the thread, I don't want to write the same thing over and over again. |
This shit wrecks the ostwind, flank the stugs, and toy and tease with the PIV.
It loses to ostwind 1v1 and does not outrange the p4. And saying that it can flank a stug is akin to saying that cons can kill at guns, flanking is the thing that most vehicles do. |
you cannot skip T2 or you pretty much auto-lose.
and which light tanks is it incapable of fighting against?
T2 is tech cost. AEC tech + unit cost is unit cost.
"light tank hunter" implies that the AEC is light, not the tanks it hunts. Should have worded it better, yeah.
everything BUT medium tanks the AEC can take on handily (as in, doing its job). the bigger tanks it can't take on alone, but it's not like it cannot damage them/finish a damaged one off.
Exactly, that's what a puma does except the "BUT mediums tanks" part. |
the sideteching cost in that case is actually WAY better than anything ost has... you can simply elect to spend the 100/15 for the tech and NEVER EVEN BUILD the AEC. ostheer absolutely cannot just say "ah, well... skipping T2", because if you do you are absolutely screwed vs. pretty much any kind of vehicle (and building T2 is both more complicated, as in you need a pio in your base, and more expensive and it could potentially get killed and you will have to rebuild it to be able to build T2 units again).
Just as you can simply skip the StuG or the ostwind, or literally any other unit: you can just spend it on teching. I can't see what you are talking about.
i still didn't see a single argument that warrants a buff for the AEC.
This:
I repeat again: the AEC does a job, but it does too little for too much resources. Its intended role is identical to the puma's: light tank hunter, and it does not deliver.
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