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russian armor

Su-76 no longer needs free barrage?

11 Aug 2015, 07:35 AM
#21
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1





Have any of you people actually done the math on Soviet vs Ostheer tech?

Even when you 0 fuel advantage over an Ostheer player, which is hard to imagine considering how super effective M5 quad rushes are, you can still get out a quad and 2 SU76s before a P4 hits the field.


If you wait for a P4 to counter an Atgun on tracks, you probably deserve to lose. We all know the quad need to be nerf in some ways, no need to put it on the table again and again...

On topic:
Make the Su-76 barrage = to Zis barrage and apply the same cost if you want.
11 Aug 2015, 07:46 AM
#22
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 07:35 AMEsxile


If you wait for a P4 to counter an Atgun on tracks, you probably deserve to lose. We all know the quad need to be nerf in some ways, no need to put it on the table again and again...

On topic:
Make the Su-76 barrage = to Zis barrage and apply the same cost if you want.


Well, what other unit are you going to put against it? The Stug G? Same deal, there will be a Quad and 2 SU76 on the field by the time you get a StugG. Panther? Good luck with that against 4 SU76.
11 Aug 2015, 08:25 AM
#23
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

It's horribly inaccurate + low aoe profile. Barrage is ineffective thing. it's used only because it's free.
11 Aug 2015, 08:33 AM
#24
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

1 su76 barrage is crap but i tend to use the su76 in groups of 3. And 3 barrages tend to tear down defensive lines pretty quickly. Not that it should be nerfed but it is more potent then people realise.
11 Aug 2015, 08:36 AM
#25
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2



Well then you wouldn't miss it would you?



The barrage is hit-and-miss but it can wipe a squad fairly regularly. Every game I see SU-76s and every game they use barrage a lot.


its a pretty good areal denier so im gonna miss it even though it is horrible.
11 Aug 2015, 08:59 AM
#26
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Make the barrage cost 60 ammo or something, so soviets can use their ammo on something.
11 Aug 2015, 09:05 AM
#27
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

SU-76M is fine. Just nerf Quad and maybe buff Ostheer countering ability slightly and it's fine.

11 Aug 2015, 09:19 AM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Make the barrage cost 60 ammo or something, so soviets can use their ammo on something.


That is like making volks cost 300 mp so OKW doesn't float mp anymore.
11 Aug 2015, 09:36 AM
#29
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Make the barrage cost 60 ammo or something, so soviets can use their ammo on something.


In its current state, it's worth 10, max.
11 Aug 2015, 09:45 AM
#30
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

10 Kappa, have had so many thing taken out by barrages from a SU-76. 40 then but that's the minimum
11 Aug 2015, 10:10 AM
#31
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 02:12 AMVuther

Keywords.

...also I'm pretty sure literally everyone would easily lose against anyone else with that kind of fuel disadvantage.



Ya well thats pretty much what happens. Soviets get quad out to push you off your fuel. Or use a t70. Then soon they get 2-3 su76s and well....
11 Aug 2015, 10:12 AM
#32
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Well, what other unit are you going to put against it? The Stug G? Same deal, there will be a Quad and 2 SU76 on the field by the time you get a StugG. Panther? Good luck with that against 4 SU76.


Dunno, Atgun, shreck... Someone going 2 Su-76 is going to lack AI power.
11 Aug 2015, 10:13 AM
#33
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 09:19 AMKatitof


That is like making volks cost 300 mp so OKW doesn't float mp anymore.


Well you know which other faction gets oodles of extra mp? USF. Its not like OKW is the only one to get oodles of free mp from their incorrect teching costs.

Lets alo price nerf rifles to 350 mp. kappa
11 Aug 2015, 10:15 AM
#34
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 10:13 AMJunaid


Well you know which other faction gets oodles of extra mp? USF. Its not like OKW is the only one to get oodles of free mp from their incorrect teching costs.

Lets alo price nerf rifles to 350 mp. kappa


LOL
11 Aug 2015, 10:15 AM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 10:13 AMJunaid


Well you know which other faction gets oodles of extra mp? USF. Its not like OKW is the only one to get oodles of free mp from their incorrect teching costs.

Lets alo price nerf rifles to 350 mp. kappa

You think USF floats menpower?
For real?
Have you ever played USF in your life?
Rifles upkeep, reinforcement and squad cost make sure that you have absolutely no mp for anything.
There is a reason why all the USF players have 300+ fuel but no menpower to spend that fuel on in mid/late game.
11 Aug 2015, 10:32 AM
#36
avatar of Junaid

Posts: 509

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 10:15 AMKatitof

You think USF floats menpower?
For real?
Have you ever played USF in your life?
Rifles upkeep, reinforcement and squad cost make sure that you have absolutely no mp for anything.
There is a reason why all the USF players have 300+ fuel but no menpower to spend that fuel on in mid/late game.


First: did you see the kappa. It was meant to tease you.

I did say incorrect teching cost. I did the math here: http://www.coh2.org/topic/36782/teching-analysis-and-faction-comparison-re-july-21-patch/page/1#

USF AND OKW both have horrendously underpriced manpower teching costs.
11 Aug 2015, 12:13 PM
#37
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 07:12 AMKatitof



You all are bitching about a unit that was extinct forever, suddenly came back and you have no clue on how to fight it.



Firstly, not "all" are bitching, half the people are saying they think the barrage is fine.

Secondly, no-one is actually bitching. This is a pretty peaceful thread about a suggested small change and everyone was being polite until you showed up. Do you interpret everything as aggression towards you, even if it's benign?


Why not just relax and enjoy a discussion instead of trying to aggravate people?

-----------------------------------------------------------



So to clarify my original question:

A vehicle with great AI like the Ostwind has no AT capability.
A TD like SU-85 has great AT but no AI capability.
A generalist like a PIV has medium AI and medium AT capability.

So why does the SU-76 have great AT but also come with a free AI barrage? There should be a trade-off.
11 Aug 2015, 12:26 PM
#38
avatar of Plaguer

Posts: 498

This is a weird idea but... Maybe give the su-76 an ability to use HE ammo (maybe 45 ammo cost, 30 seconds?) at Vet 1, and making the barrage useable while the ability is active, and when the ability is active the su would shoot HE with the direct fire.

Let me know how this sounds, this is most likely a stoopid idea
11 Aug 2015, 12:31 PM
#39
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Due to the nonlinear nature of Soviet teching they need some nondoc utility units, like the SU-76M and T34/76M. If you go T1 you need the SU-76s good AT, and if you go T2 you need the barrage to take out buildings and support weapons.
11 Aug 2015, 12:39 PM
#40
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508



So to clarify my original question:

A vehicle with great AI like the Ostwind has no AT capability.
A TD like SU-85 has great AT but no AI capability.
A generalist like a PIV has medium AI and medium AT capability.

So why does the SU-76 have great AT but also come with a free AI barrage? There should be a trade-off.


The trade off is that barrage is not very effective and takes the place of an ability that could actually help the SU-76 in its AT role. For instance, the SU-76 could have aimed shot or some such option. Instead it gets an ability that makes it into also an extremely weak and unreliable AI unit (besides its AT role).

Let me ask you this - would you rather face SU-76s with aimed shot or TWP, or SU-76s with barrage?
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